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Rugby World Cup Rankings / Seedings

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Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
Some days I wake up and wonder how all this iRB stuff happens without me knowing about it. It's not like I'm not reading the fucking rugby news. Anyway, I knew that the iRb were considering a ranking system for RWC11 but I didn't realise the whole thing was finalised.

Anyway, I've invited John Connolly here to explain it:

As the Wallabies embark on their end-of-season tour, few would be aware just how much is riding on every result. The seedings for the next World Cup will be based on rankings at the end of November.

The Wallabies currently sit third on 85.69 points, behind New Zealand (92.04) and South Africa (87.75), but more importantly just ahead of Argentina (83.36) and England (83.16).

These kind of facts and figures may bore the socks off some people, but they could have a massive impact on our World Cup hopes in 2011.

If we stay in third spot and New Zealand maintain their No.1 ranking, we would face South Africa in a World Cup semi-final (provided results followed the form guide, of course).

If we drop to fourth, we would most likely have to face the All Blacks in the semi-finals; if we drop to fifth, make than a trans-Tasman confrontation in the quarter-finals - an even more unappealing prospect.

Of course, a lot can happen before the next World Cup. Following the 2003 tournament, England were entrenched in first position.

Two years later, they were languishing much lower in the rankings. I don't think the same will happen to New Zealand, particularly if Dan Carter and Richie McCaw stay fit. There is also the possibility of Carl Hayman, Luke McAlister and co returning from Europe, which would make the All Blacks even more formidable.

Wales (80.12 points) and France (78.99) are too far adrift to make the top four, and it is unlikely Australia would drop out of that bracket. That would happen only if Argentina beat Ireland at Croke Park in November, and England have a very good series against the visiting Tri Nations countries in the same month.

Given that southern hemisphere teams make up the top four spots on the ladder, European teams may be paying the price for not giving the June Tests the respect they deserve.

The International Rugby Board rankings use a "points exchange" system in which teams take points off each other; you are rewarded or penalised based on the result and for winning or losing by 15 points or more. Home-ground advantage is also factored in to the equation. Put simply, for every loss, you lose roughly half a point, while the opposition gains half a point.

The Wallabies probably weren't aware of it at the time, but the points spread in their last game against New Zealand had important ramifications. When we were down 28-17 in Brisbane, with New Zealand on the attack and on the verge of scoring, we were facing a 15-point loss at home - and the prospect of our ranking taking a serious hit. Like everyone else, I was delighted Australia scored late to close the gap and set up a thrilling finish to the game.

I'm not sure how the IRB will calculate the points for the Bledisloe Cup match in neutral Hong Kong on November 1. It's an interesting challenge

I believe there is too much emphasis on the World Cup. It feels like we are focusing on the next tournament as soon as the last one is finished. Instead, we should be focusing on the next Test or the next Super 14 season. National coaches always seem to be building for the next World Cup and some use it as an excuse for poor form.

In this case, world rankings are an interesting sidebar to our November tour. I don't think Australia will drop from third, as I anticipate Ireland will beat Argentina at Croke Park and that England won't win all their home Tests. But it's a fascinating scenario to keep an eye on.

Thanks, John. Except I think you'll find that if Australia drops to 5th, it means we'll play 4th in the QTR-FINAL, not 1st, as you suggest.

Apart from that, you are talking sense. The Kiwis have locked up top spot. No worries. That means it doesn't really matter much about the order of 2nd (RSA) and 3rd (AUS). We could swap positions and still meet in the semis.

Of course, it doesn't matter much if the Wallabies drop to 4th, since we'll just smash the Kiwis in the semis like we always do.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
:nta:

Hang on a sec - if we got into second, then the seeding of the draw would ensure we could not meet the Kiwis before the final - if we win our pool.
 
W

whocares

Guest
Scarfman said:
Thanks, John. Except I think you'll find that if Australia drops to 5th, it means we'll play 4th in the QTR-FINAL, not 1st, as you suggest.

Apart from that, you are talking sense. The Kiwis have locked up top spot. No worries. That means it doesn't really matter much about the order of 2nd (RSA) and 3rd (AUS). We could swap positions and still meet in the semis.

Of course, it doesn't matter much if the Wallabies drop to 4th, since we'll just smash the Kiwis in the semis like we always do.

Actually Scarfy, Knuckles is right on this one (for once). the 5th placed team goes into pool D with the 4th placed team. However he's also assuming that all team will finish in their pools in the same rank as the world rankings. So if we finish 5th in world rankings but get wtop of pool D then we play 2nd in pool A (most likely 8th on world rankings).
This is how I believe the pools are done

A B C D
1 2 3 4
8 7 6 5
9 10 11 12
16 15 14 13
17 18 19 20
 

disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
Of course, it doesn't matter much if the Wallabies drop to 4th, since we'll just smash the Kiwis in the semis like we always do.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Although a late penalty goal by James Horwill in a world cup final after 80 minutes to snatch victory would be nice.
 
W

whocares

Guest
disco said:
Of course, it doesn't matter much if the Wallabies drop to 4th, since we'll just smash the Kiwis in the semis like we always do.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Although a late penalty goal by James Horwill in a world cup final after 80 minutes to snatch victory would be nice.

no by Matt Dunning
at least we know he can kick them.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
No, Dunning can only kick droppies!
Can someone erudite explain to me again why the rankings are decided so far out from the RWC - I knew it was happening but never really got the reason why?
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
Tom said:
Actually Scarfy, Knuckles is right on this one (for once). the 5th placed team goes into pool D with the 4th placed team. However he's also assuming that all team will finish in their pools in the same rank as the world rankings. So if we finish 5th in world rankings but get wtop of pool D then we play 2nd in pool A (most likely 8th on world rankings).
This is how I believe the pools are done

A B C D
1 2 3 4
8 7 6 5
9 10 11 12
16 15 14 13
17 18 19 20

I see what you're saying. So, being sensible, I would prefer to play South Africa than New Zealand in the semi-finals in Auckland. So, it would be good to stay in the top 3 over Spring.

But if we bottle it, and the Argies beat Ireland like they always do, then we might be looking at 4th or 5th and meeting the Kiwis in the semis ...

...



...





...





... IF THEY MAKE IT THAT FAR.
 

disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
Can someone erudite explain to me again why the rankings are decided so far out from the RWC - I knew it was happening but never really got the reason why?

Yeah that's what I was thinking, surely seeding at the end of 2010 would make more sense.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
I guess it feeds into the qualification rounds. Although I don't see exactly why. It's not going to affect Africa 1 vs Afica 2 and so on.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Scarfman said:
I guess it feeds into the qualification rounds. Although I don't see exactly why. It's not going to affect Africa 1 vs Afica 2 and so on.

Qualification rounds have already started - Brazil handed Trinidad & Tobago their arse on a platter ;)

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/qualifying/news/newsid=2027209.html#brazil+gain+upper+hand+over+tt

I think they have to simply pick a point but at a particular time of year, who does it advantage most? If they did it immediately after June tours then the NH would be in a world of hurt but they could use it to their advantage - catching people unawares like the poms did in '07
 
F

formeropenside

Guest
Personally I believe the top 8 results from the last RWC should be the seedings for the next. If nothing else, it assists sides like Fiji who for various reasons can only put their absolute best team on the park for a RWC.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Yeah but then you have a situation where sides like England build up well to one World Cup and then pull it out of their arse next time. I think if you're not going to put in the hard yards in between then we are going to maintain the current situation where teams only give a damn once every four years.
 

liquor box

Greg Davis (50)
cyclopath said:
No, Dunning can only kick droppies!
Can someone erudite explain to me again why the rankings are decided so far out from the RWC - I knew it was happening but never really got the reason why?

It takes 3 years for chefs at the games to decide what the all blacks will choke on
 

Virgil

Larry Dwyer (12)
Scarfman said:
All the good ones have.

Cheers O0

Yeah its strange to finalize the seedings so far out.
And to tell you the truth i doubt many fans would look forward to facing you guys at a semi final stage again...mind you the same can be said about facing France. (at QF and SF!)
 
F

formeropenside

Guest
Scarfman said:
You woudn't want to be playing South Africa in the final, either.

I'd have backed almost any side except England to win against SA in the RWC. I certainly think the Wallabies or AB's would have.
 

Virgil

Larry Dwyer (12)
Scarfman said:
You woudn't want to be playing South Africa in the final, either.

Yep basically what we want is a repeat of the ridiculously easy run that SA had last year, ie Fiji in the quarters, Argentina in the SF. And the miracle that was England in the final.

Man that would be sweet.
 
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