RWC QF 4 AUS v SCO (Twickenham) 19th Oct 0200 AEDT

[Rugbynutter39]

Luckily you won't have to be watching the Wallabies after next week!

As if Scotland will beat the Wallabies! (note to self - that 2012 game in Newcastle never happened...)

 

[jollyswagman]

Nobody is advocating "resting policies" chaps. That is something completely different to managing key players who are carrying niggling injuries into the business end of the tournament. Call it the Folau conundrum if you will......at what point does a niggling injury diminish the performance of a player so much so that they become less effective or reliable than the alternate?

How do you weigh up the risk of aggravating the injury and possibly losing the player for a more important match the following week or even for the remainder of the tournament?

How many players would fall into this situation? Gits, Folau & Pocock are the only ones I can think of......any others? Surely a backline of Genia, Foley, To'omua, Kurindrani, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell & Beale could put Scotland to the sword without too much trouble.

 

[Pfitzy]

1 Sio
2 Moore (c)
3 Kepu
4 Simmons
5 Douglas
6 Fardy - though that bloke needs a rest
7 Hooper
8 McCalman
9 Genia
10 Foley
11 Mitchell
12 Giteau
13 TK - come on son, blow it wide open! Make the bastards AFRAID again!
14 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15 Beale

16 TPN
17 Slipper
18 Holmes
19 Mumm - just think he's a better finisher
20 McMahon
21 Phipps
22 To'omua
23 Horne

If things are going well, give Fardy and Giteau a rest. Otherwise no pre-determined subs like McMahon @ 50 minutes. That nearly backfired on us badly.

 

[TheBigDog]

If I were coaching the Wallabies in this situation (disclaimer: I will never actually be allowed to coach the Wallabies) then I would do everything possible to make sure that at least one of Pocock or Folau take the field against Scotland.

By all reports both those players are going to be suffering to some extent after the Wales game, but I think you at least need one of them on the field or it suddenly makes the Wallabies SEEM like a much more vulnerable side. I say SEEM vulnerable because although I think the reserves could do the job, not seeing the names Pocock (arguably the most dominant forward at the RWC this year) or Folau (Australia's best attacking weapon) on the team sheet will give the Scotsmen some very wide grins and when it comes to these knockout finals we all know that it can sometimes just be a matter of out enthusing the opposition for periods which could make the difference.

So pretty much, in summary, whomever is less injured out of Pocock or Folau needs to take the field this weekend in my opinion.

 

[Scotty]

If Beale starts because Folau is out the choice of who replaces him on the bench will come down to whether you are more looking for versatility or the ability to provide late spark. At the moment Beale is playing very well and providing both which is a huge asset to the side.

Cooper would provide more late spark but less versatility.

Mitchell more flexibility but less spark.

I'd have no issues bringing Cooper on in the last 15 minutes and having him notionally playing on the wing but acting as a potential first receiver/extra playmaker on attack. Ultimately this is what Beale has done against England and Wales.

The other option is that Cooper goes to first receiver in the attacking portion of the field and Foley is the roving player and wide play maker. He has a better running game than Cooper so is more suited to the wide role.

 

[KOB1987]

The other option is that Cooper goes to first receiver in the attacking portion of the field and Foley is the roving player and wide play maker. He has a better running game than Cooper so is more suited to the wide role.

Assuming no other changes speight would take Beale's bench spot IMO


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[Pfitzy]

The other option is that Cooper goes to first receiver in the attacking portion of the field and Foley is the roving player and wide play maker. He has a better running game than Cooper so is more suited to the wide role.

Which would make sense if Foley hadn't used our great team work with his individual skill to humiliate England with sublime back play including the tight quarters, kicking game, and taking points on offer.

We've seen what Cooper has brought lately in terms of scoring points. It simply isn't good enough at this point, and defensively he's a liability compared to To'omua, whose play making it on par with Cooper's current form.

 

[Gnostic]

^^^^
Never forget Newcastle on 5 Jun 2012 or Murrayfield on 21 Nov 2009.

I was there in 2012 - I think I'm still cold from that night.

 

[Scotty]

If there's carrying injuries that mean they'll be less effective than their possible replacements though then I'm all for it.

Without a doubt both Folau and Pockock played a long period of the game injured. This particularly hampered Folau and he was limping most of the time in back play. Didn't jump for high balls and didn't even try to get to some of them. Towards the end he got the ball in space and obviously couldn't put the foot down so just jogged back inside.

Cheicka may have also made a few errors on subs last night (maybe just unfortunate timing). He took McMahon off just after he had a strong run and at the same time there was a injured stoppage for Pocock as well as bringing Beale on for Mitchell when Folau was clearly struggling as well.

On both occasions it may have been better to wait a few minutes to see how those injured players faired. In the end there were no subs for Folau and Simmons came on for Pocock.

 

[KOB1987]

Without a doubt both Folau and Pockock played a long period of the game injured. This particularly hampered Folau and he was limping most of the time in back play. Didn't jump for high balls and didn't even try to get to some of them. Towards the end he got the ball in space and obviously couldn't put the foot down so just jogged back inside.

Cheicka may have also made a few errors on subs last night (maybe just unfortunate timing). He took McMahon off just after he had a strong run and at the same time there was a injured stoppage for Pocock as well as bringing Beale on for Mitchell when Folau was clearly struggling as well.

On both occasions it may have been better to wait a few minutes to see how those injured players faired. In the end there were no subs for Folau and Simmons came on for Pocock.

No doubt the big fuck up was taking McMahon off when poey was clearly in trouble. Not that it mattered that much, Ben mccalman seemed to emerge from the bottom of every break down thereafter. Maybe Robbie was right! ;-)


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[Scotty]

Which would make sense if Foley hadn't used our great team work with his individual skill to humiliate England with sublime back play including the tight quarters, kicking game, and taking points on offer.

We've seen what Cooper has brought lately in terms of scoring points. It simply isn't good enough at this point, and defensively he's a liability compared to To'omua, whose play making it on par with Cooper's current form.

I'm not advocating Cooper at all just suggesting the options if he were involved.

However on you Foley comment while he was still good vs Wales we didn't exactly unlock their defence (which was a lot better than England's).

 

[Pfitzy]

Their rush and fitness was far better than England's. Interestingly, they were getting good yards through pick n go outside our 22, but we didn't attempt to at all.

 

[Mr Doug]

As if Scotland will beat the Wallabies! (note to self - that 2012 game in Newcastle never happened.)

The only common threads between then (2012), and now, are the names of the two teams, and the colours that they wore!

 

[Scotty]

Which would make sense if Foley hadn't used our great team work with his individual skill to humiliate England with sublime back play including the tight quarters, kicking game, and taking points on offer.

We've seen what Cooper has brought lately in terms of scoring points. It simply isn't good enough at this point, and defensively he's a liability compared to To'omua, whose play making it on par with Cooper's current form.

And if Beale is full back I see Foley taking his roving role later in the game and unleashing havoc. Either Cooper or Foley would move to the wing.

 

[Beefcake]

Should let Cooper have significant time to see where his game is at, if not to continue him boiling on the side as an back up strategy, cause the casualty ward is growing and cannot see the contingency plans should Foley get injured

 

[Dctarget]

The team that went down to Scotland at Newcastle in 2012 with a score of 6-9.

15. Luke Morahan
14. Joe Tomane
13. Anthony Fainga'a
12. Mike Harris
11. Digby Ioane
10. Berrick Barnes
9. Will Genia
8. Scott Higginbotham
7. David Pocock
6. Dave Dennis
5. Nathan Sharpe
4. Sitaleki Timani
3. Dan Palmer
2. Stephen Moore
1. James Slipper
Res: Saia Fainga'a, Ben Alexander, Rob Simmons, Michael Hooper, Nick Phipps, Pat McCabe, Adam Ashley-Cooper.

8 of that 23 is in the same as our current best 23.

 

[Dctarget]

Just because that got me thinking, here's our team four years ago in the (semi) corresponding fixture. the RWC QF against South Africa.

Australia: 15-Kurtley Beale, 14-James O'Connor, 13-Adam Ashley Cooper, 12-Pat McCabe, 11-Digby Ioane, 10-Quade Cooper, 9-Will Genia, 8-Radike Samo, 7-David Pocock, 6-Rocky Elsom, 5-James Horwill (capt), 4-Dan Vickerman, 3-Ben Alexander, 2-Stephen Moore, 1-Sekope Kepu.
Replacements: 16 Tatafu Polota Nau, 17 James Slipper, 18 Nathan Sharpe, 19 Ben McCalman, 20 Luke Burgess, 21 Berrick Barnes, 22 Anthony Fainga'a
9 of that 22 from 2011 is in our best 23.

 

[TSR]

I get that the Wallabies are coming off a run of success, and that this is fuelling optimism and confidence. But some comments seem to suggest beating Scotland is a fate accompli. It's a two horse race against another tier one nation in conditions they are more used to then us. And we are coming of two taxing games with injury concerns to two of our best players.
Talk is cheap - if we do win, there was/is no need to talk ourselves up. If we lose, we just look like arrogant schmucks. I am confident it is only the supporters, not the players, but gee I'd much prefer if we all took a softly, softly approach here.

 

[Highlander35]

In the same vein, the team that played in Newcastle for us is this:

FB 15 Stuart Hogg
RW 14 Joe Ansbro
OC 13 Nick De Luca
IC 12 Matt Scott
LW 11 Sean Lamont Substituted off 38'
FH 10 Greig Laidlaw
SH 9 Mike Blair Substituted off 63'
N8 8 John Barclay
OF 7 Ross Rennie
BF 6 Alasdair Strokosch
RL 5 Richie Gray
LL 4 Alastair Kellock
TP 3 Euan Murray
HK 2 Ross Ford (c)
LP 1 Ryan Grant
Replacements:
HK 16 Scott Lawson
PR 17 Jon Welsh
LK 18 Tom Ryder
N8 19 Richie Vernon
SH 20 Chris Cusiter Substituted in 63'
FH 21 Duncan Weir
FB 22 Tom Brown

7 of that 22 are in the 23 that lined up against Samoa.

 

[cyclopath]

I get that the Wallabies are coming off a run of success, and that this is fuelling optimism and confidence. But some comments seem to suggest beating Scotland is a fate accompli. It's a two horse race against another tier one nation in conditions they are more used to then us. And we are coming of two taxing games with injury concerns to two of our best players.
Talk is cheap - if we do win, there was/is no need to talk ourselves up. If we lose, we just look like arrogant schmucks. I am confident it is only the supporters, not the players, but gee I'd like much prefer if we all took a softly, softly approach here.

I agree, I dislike the over-confidence that comes out in some quarters after a win.
I doubt the team, nor Cheika and his coaching team think at all like that.
But it's the nature of the beast supporting the Wallabies in recent years - expectations have been low at times, and a couple of good wins put some wind in the sails.
I doubt we'll have an easy time against Scotland.