School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[beserker]

The comment I challenged was about the index of socio economic advantage.

Don't change the subject.

Well I never told the Census where I send my boys to school and I never told the school my income. How they put it together is beyond me.
As for your incorrect assumptions:
1. two schools with the same socio economic advantage should have the same HSC results. This can't be correct because Newington and High have the same index, yet one school has selective entrance and the other does not.
2. You claim to be able to rank the schools on their HSC results. But your rankings are not in line with the Naplan tests which assesses the performance of all boys and not just those who score 90 and above.

The only reason that this thread has become bigger than War and Peace is that some of us sense it is about more than a simple rule break. It is how the schools are positioning themselves in the market place for future enrolments and where that school places rugby in that future.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

1. two schools with the same socio economic advantage should have the same HSC results.

Oh boy.
That's why I compared TSC with a school with the same general admission policy and roughly the same index number.
Ask the 2014 U16 rugby boys about the kid who started today: very powerful ball running and hard tackling backrower. Good luck to the kid he deserves a break.

 

[beserker]

You share the same lack of comprehension and logic as my ex.
Given my track record in that regard.
I'll just agree to disagree vehemently and move on.

Good for you. I should point out to you that I myself only joined this site because I 'd lost contact with my boys during my divorce (except during the rugby season) and because it was certainly cheaper to argue here than with any of the solicitors. Anyway I am hoping for a thaw this semester and to have less time correcting the well intentioned but ill advised of those amongst us who accept whatever makes them feel good.

 

[beserker]

Oh boy.
That's why I compared TSC with a school with the same general admission policy and roughly the same index number.
Ask the 2014 U16 rugby boys about the kid who started today: very powerful ball running and hard tackling backrower. Good luck to the kid he deserves a break.

Are you sure this isn't another sad old assumption - he's good, he's going to TSC - he must be on a scholarship.
Perhaps we are all becoming too cynical. But wouldn't that cynicism be better aimed at the school leaders?
Cherio! Hope to catch you all on the sidlines

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Are you sure this isn't another sad old assumption - he's good, he's going to TSC - he must be on a scholarship.
Perhaps we are all becoming too cynical. But wouldn't that cynicism be better aimed at the school leaders?
Cherio! Hope to catch you all on the sidlines

Zero doubt but don't stop believing - perhaps your ex will have you back.
Edit: all criticism is aimed at the school leaders, I a very very happy for this kid.

 

[Runner]

The only reason that this thread has become bigger than War and Peace is that some of us sense it is about more than a simple rule break. It is how the schools are positioning themselves in the market place for future enrolments and where that school places rugby in that future.

It always about marketing and product brand. Each will try to exploit every advantage and in some cases go outside the agreed rules of the group.

Reminds me a bit of how pilots in combat worked at the start of WWI. All were very gentelmanly till some one brought a gun to the dance. They soon moved from being like knights of the air to the dog fights. Winner take all

The academic argument has so many variables from cohort to cohort, teachers they have, attitudes etc etc.

 

[Quick Hands]

Well I never told the Census where I send my boys to school and I never told the school my income. How they put it together is beyond me.

All schools are required to submit this information for each student. You would have supplied this information to the school, possibly without realising it. No school can receive any government funding unless this information is provided for every student.

 

[Quick Hands]

I wonder if TSC supporters stopped for a moment to think that the reason that their school is getting lots of mentions on this thread because of the activities of its school leaders not because of some pathological hatred of the school?

But of course it's easier to put it all down to a massive conspiracy that to admit things.

 

[beserker]

But of course it's easier to put it all down to a massive conspiracy that to admit things.

Dear poor old confused Quick Hands, let me enlighten you this very last time - and I only come back because in fact you and I are on the same side, but your friendly fire is unproductive. Here is the argument:
1. Selective schools dud most rugby players. This is because many achieve an ATAR of 70-85, which is the lower of the selective streams. But the bigger truth is that rugby players, like artists, do what they have to do, not maximising their ATAR, but in obedience to some mysterious necessity.
2. The recent history of Shore, its marketing material, its popularity, its refusal to say how it does select its students, its haste in refusing to play TSC point to a selective enrolment by stealth. If any of the non selective schools was about to abandon this ideal, it is Shore.
3. Rugby has been good to GPS. Rugby has been good to Shore. Shore needs to repay this debt.
4. The schools are not more important than their students, and should be judged by what they achieve for all their students.
5. Any move to restrict entry to GPS schools for rugby playing students is illegal, immoral and trashes its own traditions. Because of this, should push come to shove and some GPS schools follow the selective entry fetish the I will join you, Quick Hands, along with IS, lincoln, and cyclotron at the front of the protest.

over and out

 

[cyclopath]

Rest assured, I won't be there with you. Your obfuscation has nothing to do with the point of this thread.
And cyclotron.........Jeez, I laughed.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Dear poor old confused Quick Hands, let me enlighten you this very last time - and I only come back because in fact you and I are on the same side, but your friendly fire is unproductive. Here is the argument:
1. Selective schools dud most rugby players. This is because many achieve an ATAR of 70-85, which is the lower of the selective streams. But the bigger truth is that rugby players, like artists, do what they have to do, not maximising their ATAR, but in obedience to some mysterious necessity.
2. The recent history of Shore, its marketing material, its popularity, its refusal to say how it does select its students, its haste in refusing to play TSC point to a selective enrolment by stealth. If any of the non selective schools was about to abandon this ideal, it is Shore.
3. Rugby has been good to GPS. Rugby has been good to Shore. Shore needs to repay this debt.
4. The schools are not more important than their students, and should be judged by what they achieve for all their students.
5. Any move to restrict entry to GPS schools for rugby playing students is illegal, immoral and trashes its own traditions. Because of this, should push come to shove and some GPS schools follow the selective entry fetish the I will join you, Quick Hands, along with IS, lincoln, and cyclotron at the front of the protest.

over and out

How is it illegal?
There's no mystery as to how you get into shore:
1. First in best dressed: it's done on how many hours old you were when booked in and you're not allowed to book em in before they're born;
2. Contrary to my then belief, in answer to the question "Religion" do not answer "rugby";
3. Have a lazy present day $30k per child increasing at 5 times the rate of inflation per annum.
Simple really - don't tell me you didn't know?

 

[Quick Hands]

Dear poor old confused Quick Hands, let me enlighten you this very last time - and I only come back because in fact you and I are on the same side, but your friendly fire is unproductive. Here is the argument:
1. Selective schools dud most rugby players. This is because many achieve an ATAR of 70-85, which is the lower of the selective streams. But the bigger truth is that rugby players, like artists, do what they have to do, not maximising their ATAR, but in obedience to some mysterious necessity.
2. The recent history of Shore, its marketing material, its popularity, its refusal to say how it does select its students, its haste in refusing to play TSC point to a selective enrolment by stealth. If any of the non selective schools was about to abandon this ideal, it is Shore.
3. Rugby has been good to GPS. Rugby has been good to Shore. Shore needs to repay this debt.
4. The schools are not more important than their students, and should be judged by what they achieve for all their students.
5. Any move to restrict entry to GPS schools for rugby playing students is illegal, immoral and trashes its own traditions. Because of this, should push come to shove and some GPS schools follow the selective entry fetish the I will join you, Quick Hands, along with IS, lincoln, and cyclotron at the front of the protest.

over and out

I might be confused about some things.

1. How are rugby players duded by any school? If you work hard you will get better marks regardless of what sport you do or don't play. Maybe boys who are getting between 70-85 are achieving their potential - not everyone is capable of 90% plus, just as not everyone is capable of playing 1st XV.

2. Shore is popular for a number of reasons, one being its geographical location on the north shore. Its enrolment process is quite simple actually. Date of application, with sons and grandsons of Old Boys getting priority as long as they apply before the boy's 1st birthday. Their student body have their enrolment confirmed on or about their 2nd birthday (with $1000 fee). The have a few academic scholarships - half of which are reserved for students of their own prep school, a few music scholarships - one of which is reserved for the French Horn and a couple of boarding scholarships.

3. Shore has about 10 open teams and goes down to 16 Hs and 13Ks, so I think they are repaying any "debt" which they may have to rugby.

4. Correct.

5. Who is attempting to ban rugby players from GPS schools? Most of the schools seem to have plenty of rugby players without offering sporting scholarships - so I'm certainly confused about this point.

The only "trashing of traditions" that I'm aware of is by the current Headmaster of Scots, who is doing that at his own school and may well take the rest of the AAGPS down the gurgler with him.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

One sport, half through a season and Grammar is coming fourth. What's your point? Seriously.

You still there paddogreen?

 

[Quick Hands]

He might be out watching some of the 61 "good sportsmen" playing Shore in basketball.

EDIT: And I did have a little chuckle this morning when I saw the Grammar v Scots cricket results in the paper.

 

[GPS Observer]

Respect to you Quick Hands. I don't think Lambert will take the rest of the AAGPS down the gurgler with him, I think the independent review they are having will give them wriggle room to jump down the gurgler ,willingly ,with him.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Not sure that open slather in AAGPS scholarshipping will take it (or rugby) down the gurgler.

Queensland GPS gave up on trying to prevent sporting (Rugby) scholarships several years back. Many schools there actively and openly buy in talent, and some schools apparently stoically refuse to do so with a corresponding lack of rugby premiership success.

That should be a recipe for disaster for community youth and school rugby against conventional thinking, however according to the latest rugby census (only going off what others have posted - not seen the figures personally) in 2013 (for the first time) Queensland had more rugby "participants" than NSW.

Not saying that Private Schools rugby is everything, but for those predicting dire consequences if the AAGPS code of conduct was actually changed to permit inducements to talented athletes/good sportsmen, even if the bastion that is AAGPS falls, an alternative "premier schools" competition will quickly be established.

Can't see the likes of Joeys, View or Kings etc suddenly deciding to drop rugby from their sports/games curriculum just because TSC refuse to publicly "toe the line" regarding compliance with the current AAGPS code of conduct.

 

[I like to watch]

He might be out watching some of the 61 "good sportsmen" playing Shore in basketball.

EDIT: And I did have a little chuckle this morning when I saw the Grammar v Scots cricket results in the paper.

This is where I have some empathy for Dr L.
These 61 students that are good at sport are just being spread too thinly.
Not only was a delegation required to dispense with Shore at the Basketball,they were also on hand for the yr 8 rowers moment of glory.
Perhaps they can tweak their bursary eligibility criteria to take the strain off the 61?
What does Dr L say about education at Scots.
"No sport will be left behind"

 

[Inside Shoulder]

He might be out watching some of the 61 "good sportsmen" playing Shore in basketball.

EDIT: And I did have a little chuckle this morning when I saw the Grammar v Scots cricket results in the paper.

Hence my question
Won 1st, 2nds and 16A's

 

[Quick Hands]

Not sure that open slather in AAGPS scholarshipping will take it (or rugby) down the gurgler.

It depends on what one's view is on school sport. To those of us who take the view that school sport isn't professional sport in another setting, but part of the educative process, then open slather will certainly take it down the gurgler.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Open slather will allow like to seek like.

It may result in the demise of the association that we know as AAGPS, but the likes of Grammar and Shore will most likely join with the more Corinthian schools currently in other associations, where games are played for games sake and the educative and character shaping virtues.

Those who seek world domination will draw together and create their own empire.

The AAGPS as we know it may fall, but schoolboy rugby in Sydney/NSW will not go down the gurgler.