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School sporting scholarships/recruitment

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
sIf results like these continue then Joeys firsts and others may pull out of playing their firsts like Grammar etc. Defacto we will end up with a higher schoolboys comp including some new sides i suspect. I also suspect that this will happen sooner than you think.

If most of the other schools pull out of the 1sts competition, who the hell do you think Scots are going to play against?

You see, a competition is only a competition when you have someone to play against. Scots have always had the opportunity to leave the AAGPS and play in the mythical super schools competition of which you speak.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
What do you define as "imports"? Is your definition based on when they joined the school, scholarship based or some other basis? If it is based on a boys start date at school, when is a start date considered to be tagged an "import"?

By their own admission, Scots have 61 "talented sportsmen" on bursaries. These are the boys of whom we speak.
 

Rugby Mum 2

Bill Watson (15)
From a players perspective, the boys actually like the challenge of playing the super teams as it a sweeter victory when they win. This was certainly the case with the Joeys 16As side when they beat the Scots 16As at HH. The return match was close but at that stage of the season a few boys from both teams had moved up to 2nds. I hope the return match at HH for the 1sts is more robust and it will be as pride is on the line.

The Scots 1sts are a great team, their skills were pretty darn snappy on Saturday and a lot of them will be selected in GPS/NSW/Schoolboys sides based on their talent and pretty good coaching - both coaches are coaching GPS 1 this year.

But you might say that the View side is better as it is homegrown and its superstars are just that and haven't been cherry picked.
 

Gregor

Ward Prentice (10)
By their own admission, Scots have 61 "talented sportsmen" on bursaries. These are the boys of whom we speak.
Thanks Quick Hands. So when Whistleblower states 8 TSC 1st XV players are imports, he is saying 8 are on some form of bursary?
 

Gregor

Ward Prentice (10)
Just had a look at the winners over the last 20 years of the AAGPS 1st XV. TSC has only won twice! If they are conducting an arms race, it seems they are not very good at it. I still believe a champion team will beat a team of champions.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Just had a look at the winners over the last 20 years of the AAGPS 1st XV. TSC has only won twice! If they are conducting an arms race, it seems they are not very good at it. I still believe a champion team will beat a team of champions.

Now you have let the secret out: and the earlier of those 2 involved wholesale recruiting of randwick juniors - including Stu Pinkerton IIRC.
The apologists on here think that TSC is some historical powerhouse of rugby: if you go back even more than 20 years you'll see it aint so.
This is why their recruiting is (a) so obvious and (b) not in keeping with the TRUE history of the school.
Far too much drinking from the TSC kool aid.
Mind you, the same is true of Newington.
 

sarcophilus

Charlie Fox (21)
we can look forward to an Orwellian future where the powers that be manufacture results based on anniversaries and significant events by allowing digression from the guidelines. just every now and then little eddies of decent will be watched with fascination for the milliseconds as the chaos refuses to be mannaged. and we can all settle back to the comfortable opiate controlled state knowing that big brother knows best.

where did I put the bloody Roundup
 

Spieber

Bob Loudon (25)
Now you have let the secret out: and the earlier of those 2 involved wholesale recruiting of randwick juniors - including Stu Pinkerton IIRC.
The apologists on here think that TSC is some historical powerhouse of rugby: if you go back even more than 20 years you'll see it aint so.
This is why their recruiting is (a) so obvious and (b) not in keeping with the TRUE history of the school.
Far too much drinking from the TSC kool aid.
Mind you, the same is true of Newington.

Steady on - the 1978 co-premiers were a homegrown team.
 

whistleblower

Bob McCowan (2)
The currernt TSC run on team has imports in positions
1,2,5,7,8,9,10,12. The question we should ask is what is the best poilcy going forward. It is up to the headmasters to promote close sporting contests between the sides where possible but can they follow through on their actions in basketball? Given the build up of imported players over recent years I am sure that, if asked, Scots would reduce the number of imports to 4 against Kings and Shore, but run the full 8 against View and Newington and Joeys. i.e. it could be a gentlemans' agreement between the two heads.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Conventional rugby wisdom is that the following positions are key to winning a game of footy:
3. Tighthead Prop, 2. Hooker, 4 or 5. Lock, 7. Openside Flanker, 8. No 8, 9. Halfback, 10. Five Eighth, 11 or 14 or 15. wing or Fullback.

Fill in the gaps for the other positions, and you will have a decent team.

The alleged list of talented players players at TSC seems to tick many of those boxes, and it is little wonder that they were able to assemble a reasonable quantity of points against opposition.

It also suggests that their targeting and development of talent has been rather successful.

I would note that not all Y10/Y11 entrants to a school are on scholarship, or have been induced to enroll by the School itself. Some families can only afford to pay two or three years of private school fees. Some families will voluntarily move schools in the belief that it will somehow assist the chances of their darling Nigel making Schoolboys, (and ultimately Wallabies).

Finally, having assembled all the desired talent and filled the gaps, the Coaches still have to prepare the team. This is not always an easy task, and as many others have pointed out, a champion team will always beat a team of champions.
 

tavytoo

Peter Burge (5)
country parents make the choices to send kids away in year 10 often because they are playing their chosen sport
(not just rugby) at state and au level or beyond and the sheer amount of travel these families do to sydney and beyond is huge and expensive . in return they get a good structure for their academic studies too . the boarding schools need the students as much as parents need bursaries to balance the costs and should not be chastised or penalised by talk of stand down quotas on these forums, for seeking out the best pathways for them. country kids bring a lot to these city schools in their attitude often bred from a more grounded upbringing than city kids
 

Gregor

Ward Prentice (10)
Now you have let the secret out: and the earlier of those 2 involved wholesale recruiting of randwick juniors - including Stu Pinkerton IIRC.
The apologists on here think that TSC is some historical powerhouse of rugby: if you go back even more than 20 years you'll see it aint so.
This is why their recruiting is (a) so obvious and (b) not in keeping with the TRUE history of the school.
Far too much drinking from the TSC kool aid.
Mind you, the same is true of Newington.
Thanks Inside Shoulder, I have looked back and from the 80's onwards Joeys pretty much took out most of the premierships. If we want a close competition, surely we don't want to see the dominance of one school over such an extended period again. It is a bit like in rowing where Shore seems to win every year in recent times. I don't know if this is good or bad for the competition and/or quality of the sport being played.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
country parents make the choices to send kids away in year 10 often because they are playing their chosen sport
(not just rugby) at state and au level or beyond and the sheer amount of travel these families do to sydney and beyond is huge and expensive . in return they get a good structure for their academic studies too . the boarding schools need the students as much as parents need bursaries to balance the costs and should not be chastised or penalised by talk of stand down quotas on these forums, for seeking out the best pathways for them. country kids bring a lot to these city schools in their attitude often bred from a more grounded upbringing than city kids
It's great for kids from the bush who want to be semi pro athletes,so let's not bother about anything else?

Its OK for kids who go to say Shore, to turn up and play, and get physically bashed by basically,by New, who have assembled kids from all around Sydney for that specific purpose?

Sport in School is supposed to be an activity,not the sole reason for being there.
 

providence

Herbert Moran (7)
It's great for kids from the bush who want to be semi pro athletes,so let's not bother about anything else?

Its OK for kids who go to say Shore, to turn up and play, and get physically bashed by basically,by New, who have assembled kids from all around Sydney for that specific purpose?

Sport in School is supposed to be an activity,not the sole reason for being there.


Judging by the recently posted SHORE line up for last weekend perhaps the school would be better served by widening its gene pool. Some do say they are trying to which if correct is excellent news for the boys at SHORE in their broad education going forward. Certainly what was posted here recently as their line up (which may not have been correct) is not what i personally would think represents modern Australian sport at ANY level in ANY other sport let alone rugby. To be frank I felt embarrassed when i saw it despite having nothing to do with the school.

Not an attractive look from my perspective but as i say i think they are onto it from what i understand.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
<snip>
Its OK for kids who go to say Shore, to turn up and play, and get physically bashed by basically,by New, who have assembled kids from all around Sydney for that specific purpose?<snip>

Is this why the Mosman, Shore, and Northern Suburbs Axis of Power seem to want to rule the roost from their St Leonards Bunker? To get back at the bullies that bashed their boys?

Funny thing is that there is little complaint about all those nasty bullies from certain schools when it comes School Rep footy time. There seems to be scant attention paid to the enrolment status of the boys selected for AAGPS 1st XV (or U16 Presidents A's for that matter.

As long as they thrash CAS and CHS, the world is a wonderful place, all is hunky dory and above board, and the Association is at its rightful place at the top of the pyramid. Who cares that the pyramid that they so proudly sit atop of is structurally unsound and unsustainable.
 

Snort

Nev Cottrell (35)
I dip into this thread every now and then, and what strikes me is the lack of coherent thinking behind most of the posts. Mostly what we see is the wholesale bashing of two schools for, it would seem, failing to abdide by the AAGPS prohibition on sporting scholarships.

It seems to me that this is a rather hollow argument. I see no signs of any will on the part of GPS headmasters to apply to Rugby a version of the legendary basketball blackban. It strikes me (and I may be wrong) that basketball was chosen to make the point because it's a sport that isn't hugely popular within the GPS (it's not as though it's the Head of the River). Given that the GPS Schools lack the will or power to enforce their own ban, debating whether school A or B has broken it does seem rather pointless.

The assumption underlying most posts is that attracting athletes on scholarship is in itself a bad thing. That may be right, but it isn't a self-evident proposition. Boy X from Dubbo suddenly gets the chance to complete his education at a school with great facilities and good opportunities in the classroom, if he cares about that, and on the sporting field. His team-mates get the benefit of playing alongside a high-quality player, and the competition benefits from that too. Now, three arguments seem to be run against this. The first is that the boy who played in the As for four years now finds himself playing in the Seconds rather than the Firsts. Well, that can happen, but that's life. If the new guy is better, he plays. When I was in Year 12 I suddenly found myself competing for a spot with two guys who turned up at the school to complete their last year of schooling (not, I should add, on scholarships of any kind, and one turned out to be quite ordinary, even though he had tattoos). It never occurred to me to say, "it's not fair, it's my turn, I should play because I'm waiting in line." In sport, you need to earn your spot by being better than the next guy. School may not be a bad time to learn that lesson.

The second argument is that it is somehow more virtuous to develop your own players. I think there's something in this, but only up to a point. If your school's own resources aren't good enough to compete, where's the virtue in being flogged year after year? In the days before "recruiting" became common, it was hardly a level playing field - St Joseph's won 16 premierships in 20 years from 1976 to 1995 (and one of the years in which it lost was to the notorious Scots team of 1993). A school like Newington draws its pupils from (amongst others) areas of Sydney where soccer is historically strong - and in the 48 years from 1962 to 2009, it won exactly one 1st XV premiership. Where's the virtue in losing repeatedly?

The third argument is that it's unfair to have a two-speed competition in which some schools recruit externally and others don't. And that has obvious merit. The round one results suggested that this has happened already, at least at 1st XV level. The answer to that, I'm afraid, lies in a radical revamp of the GPS competition. And when you look east in the morning and see a flock of pigs flying past the rising sun, that will happen.
 

tavytoo

Peter Burge (5)
It's great for kids from the bush who want to be semi pro athletes,so let's not bother about anything else?

Its OK for kids who go to say Shore, to turn up and play, and get physically bashed by basically,by New, who have assembled kids from all around Sydney for that specific purpose?

Sport in School is supposed to be an activity,not the sole reason for being there.

The boysI know from the bush who have gone in the last 4 years have hardly been bashers just good sound club and rep players . It depends where the boys from the city and overseas are been drawn from. The sheer size of many in the rep teams now is the threat to the safety of the traditional gene pool
 
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