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Scrum - Wallabies Vs Wales

What happened with the scrum Vs Wales?


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Brumbieman

Dick Tooth (41)
Thanks Topo. Time line for assessment: Marseilles October 2007....Cardiff November 2010. Major scrum improvements during 2008: yes. 2009 just OK in scrum/forwards land, but no further core improvement that were sustained by any of forwards depth, technique or better w-l results clearly driven by forwards or scrums excellence. 2010 - Pocock aside, have our forwards and scrum quality+consistency really advanced as they should in our national team with substantial funding and technical resources?

This uneven, poor trend over 3 critical years cannot just be put down to the ever-convenient 'we lack depth and cattle in Oz'. We have cockily brushed Baxter and Weeks, and not even toured (for example) Douglas this year. It seems we are happy with Chisholm and Brown (now bench), but consider Simmons and Humphries and Higginbotham and Hodgson extraordinary risks suitable for mid-week games only.

As Topo says, surely, with the above track-record over 3 years, where a 5/10 achievement score would be generous, it is time to evaluate the adequacy of our forwards and scrum coaches? There can be no question that Foley contributed hugely in 2008, then, by all recent accounts, resigned back to NSW as he perceived Deans would not take the right counsel re selections and tactics. Whatever, have Williams (and Robbie in this area) actually delivered in this crucial area of the team's development? The facts would tend to indicate not, and that urgent specialist coaching change is needed in the forwards and, potentially, scrum specialist as well.

PS: Many posters attest that all will be well in forwards land once our 'top talent' is fully back from injury. But does the return of Robinson, Alexander and Moore confirm that theory?

They might be back, but take into account a few things:

1. Not scrummaging as a unit. Loosely bound scrum vs tightly bound scrum = tightly bound scrum wins. (roughly)

2. Condition: Fatcat and Big Ben might be back, but consider the layoffs they had, and the reasons. Fatcat with a broken forearm = no weights for 2 months. Alexander out with a fucked knee = no squats, deadlifts etc etc. He lost 11kgs. They were just simply not strong enough to hold back that welsh pack. Might have gotten away with it if our pack was bound tightly, and pushed as one unit, instead of the backrow breaking off after a couple of seconds and removing the extra shove that flankers provide.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
we need to just become gregan like dobbers and tell the ref there having a four man front row, ref will stand on the other side and we will be able to get away with murder.

This is true. Rocky is failing on three counts here:

He isn't moaning.
He isn't pushing.
He isn't cheating.

There is no point having a loose forward as captain unless he moans, pushes and cheats.
 

Boomer

Alfred Walker (16)
Front Row: SFinger seems to be going backwards (if he was ever really a contender). His props had an ordinary night but are the best we have.

Locks: Passable.

Loosies: This is where we really let the team down. Rock and 'Cock both out of the scrum as soon as possible, looking for work. These guys have got to stay bound on against bigger packs. Frustratingly, it was the same against the Poms (particularly Perth) earlier in the year.

The defensive scrum 5 in the closing stages was an example of how they can perform when they choose to. Can and choose are important here - they need to commit. It's a choice, a mental aspect of the game. They simply have to commit to the hard work.

I know they're covering defensive holes in the backs (let's all glare at QC (Quade Cooper)) but if the commitment isn't there, we're not going to enjoy the remainder of the tour against the tight fives we've got to face.
 

liquor box

Greg Davis (50)
Put simply, we will never beat an 8 man scrum with only 5 players scrummaging. If we need answers then there are 3 wallabies that should be able to give a good explanation as they had a very good view.

Unless we all push for the whole scrum we will always lose.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Front Row: SFinger seems to be going backwards (if he was ever really a contender). His props had an ordinary night but are the best we have.

Locks: Passable.

Loosies: This is where we really let the team down. Rock and 'Cock both out of the scrum as soon as possible, looking for work. These guys have got to stay bound on against bigger packs. Frustratingly, it was the same against the Poms (particularly Perth) earlier in the year.

The defensive scrum 5 in the closing stages was an example of how they can perform when they choose to. Can and choose are important here - they need to commit. It's a choice, a mental aspect of the game. They simply have to commit to the hard work.

I know they're covering defensive holes in the backs (let's all glare at QC (Quade Cooper)) but if the commitment isn't there, we're not going to enjoy the remainder of the tour against the tight fives we've got to face.

What a load of crap, locks passable? No mention of McCalman doing zilch in anchoring the locks?

Stick to back line moves buddy
 
T

TOCC

Guest
I wouldn't at all be surprised if Deans turns to Maafu again for the English match with Alexander on the bench
 

Jnor

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Even though you seem to be implying Deans' insanity more than anything; after the June tests? Don't think so.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Its definetly plausible, Maafu was prop during the tri-nations when the scrum went reasonably ok(not crumbling), Alexander comes back for 2 tests, and its arguably the worst 2 scrum performances since the English tests earlier in the year.

Alexander is obviously underdone, Maafu actually seemed to improve throughout the tri-nations with the Bledisloe in Sydney been his best performace with a rather solid scrum base as well.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
I hate to say I told you so. I said when Alexander was picked I feared he lacked fitness and game time. I also questioned the wisdom of Robinson as neither he nor Alexander were able to impose themselves on the single Wallaby front row (Kepu) and two non-contracted players of Randwick in the Shute Shield.

Now people post that Ma'afu is the saviour. PAH-LEASE spare me

We are seeing the fruits of Deans failure to select the best FIT players in their positions. Where has Weeks been? Why? Where is Kepu? On the heavy NH tracks where is Dan Palmer? Yes Fatprop I know you will call him a potplant but he can and would match it with Adam Jones in the conditions like we saw last night. Horses for courses. Why pick a weak scrummage with running props on a heavy track where they won't be running anyway.

The other big change I noticed last night is the extra weight Robinson is carrying. He has developed a gut like Ma'afu. So much for conditioning.

The Wallabies were again very lucky to win and only the ineptitude of the Welsh attack saved them.

I'm with Hornet I think the WBs are going to get whistled off the park next week and may end up playing with Props in the bin. Especially if they select Ma'afu. Who for Slipper, he is the only scrummage fit prop in the 22 the last two weeks.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
I hate to say I told you so. I said when Alexander was picked I feared he lacked fitness and game time. I also questioned the wisdom of Robinson as neither he nor Alexander were able to impose themselves on the single Wallaby front row (Kepu) and two non-contracted players of Randwick in the Shute Shield.

Now people post that Ma'afu is the saviour. PAH-LEASE spare me

champ, give me a break, i never said Ma'afu was any kind of saviour, i said i wouldnt at all be surprised for him to start next week, based on Dean's past selection policy, this isnt at all unlikely.
 

#1 Tah

Chilla Wilson (44)
Nothing wrong with Moore's scrummaging, but I am worried about the two Ben(n)s. All the progress the scrum has made in the last couple of seasons appears to be unravelling at the moment. I'm shitting myself about facing England next week.

How else are they going to get better apart from game time?
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
How else are they going to get better apart from game time?

They need to be fit first. Hence why I suggested Alexander shouldn't have toured. As I said there were significant questions about his scrummaging fitness during the Shute Shield when the Eastwood pack barely contained Kepu and two uncontracted front rowers from the Wicks. Alexander should have had a full off-season to build the strength back into his legs and core, and possibly Robo as well as he has obviously struggled since his broken arm.
 

JJJ

Vay Wilson (31)
Alexander should have had a full off-season to build the strength back into his legs and core, and possibly Robo as well as he has obviously struggled since his broken arm.

Alexander's only chance of getting tighthead experience are these tests. He'll no doubt be straight back to loosehead with the Brumbies. Which is fine if we want him to cover both sides from the bench, but not if we want him to do a good job as starting 3 at the world cup.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Alexander's only chance of getting tighthead experience are these tests. He'll no doubt be straight back to loosehead with the Brumbies. Which is fine if we want him to cover both sides from the bench, but not if we want him to do a good job as starting 3 at the world cup.

How is it helping his experience to get penalised off the park (and be a formal warning of going to the Bin) in the last two tests? Did a lot for Le Fuse.

And now we have TPN called into the squad after not playing a test all year.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/wallabies-call-for-polotanau-20101107-17ir7.html

Deans is panicking and this shows how poorly the squad was selected in the first place. If TPN was fit enough to tour he should have been selected three weeks ago. What has magically changed since then? Where is Charles or Fitzpatrick. Charles especially I would rate as a better scrummager than Finger or Edmonds.

My last shreds of faith in Deans are now gone. Roll on 2011 and P.O. back to kiwi land or at least away from our Rugby team.
 

Brumbies Guy

John Solomon (38)
Deans is panicking and this shows how poorly the squad was selected in the first place. If TPN was fit enough to tour he should have been selected three weeks ago. What has magically changed since then? Where is Charles or Fitzpatrick. Charles especially I would rate as a better scrummager than Finger or Edmonds.

My last shreds of faith in Deans are now gone. Roll on 2011 and P.O. back to kiwi land or at least away from our Rugby team.

Three weeks ago there was no real need for TPN, being better off focusing on his recovery back home for both his sake, and the ARU for 2011.

Last night both Moore and Fainga'a succumbed to injury leaving just Edmonds in the hooker ranks, injuries obviously out of Deans control.

If Deans flys over, say Charles, for the England game now and the scrum is again demolished as expected, everyone will be after Deans' head for naming an inexperienced hooker against a strong England scrum. If he calls in TPN and he is found not 100% and the scrum is demolised as expected, everyone will be after Deans' head again for naming an unfit hooker. The bloke can't win.
 
R

Rothschild

Guest
I'd like to recast my vote.
It is Giteau's fault. He is playing so crap that it is bringing the rest down to his level. Piss him off and you will see an immediate improvement in all players.
Can someone, obviously a Giteau fan please tell me what he does over and above any other 12 going around to deserve such star treatment - and money.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
I wouldn't at all be surprised if Deans turns to Maafu again for the English match with Alexander on the bench

It would be unfortunate to revert to Ma'food when Slipper does so well. Alexander can play both sides. He should go on the bench for Slipper, if anything.
 

unsub god

Herbert Moran (7)
Did n't we have this same problem last Spring tour. The whole back five were disengaging way too quickly. Deans has said he will need to rotate - time to rotate Slipper and have some heavy scrum sessions during the week. The English await...
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Did n't we have this same problem last Spring tour. The whole back five were disengaging way too quickly. Deans has said he will need to rotate - time to rotate Slipper and have some heavy scrum sessions during the week. The English await...

Last spring tour the scrum was highly effective against all comers.
 
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