Selection politics and bias, Gold Squads unfairness etc.

[Hugie]

I don't think the ARU should be doing any heavy lifting other than some encouragement and structure.

The model I thought could be made to work, was what happened with the SS/Woll diocese team for the CCC trials. Southern Districts rugby club was heavily involved in the selection and training of the SS/Woll team, training was at SD grounds using SD coaches and some senior players. SD then came to the trials as well. They made no secret of the fact that they wanted to use CCC as a feeder to their Colts program. These teams could train with/against the Colts. It seems to me that the district clubs (country and city) have the motive and local resources. The model could be repeated for CHS.

In particular Penrith and Parramatta have strong a motive to strengthen their Colts program and a huge base in CCC and CHS to draw from (very little GPS, CAS or ISA). This would be a very small cash flow option that ARU and NSWRU could push using both a carrot and a stick eg the points cap systems used in club rugby.

 

[Gristlechewer]

HJ would you say your opinion would be the same for Sports High Schools. Reason I say this at the time I was looking for a school for my kids to hopefully progress in rugby, I found Westfields Sports High School cause I couldnt afford GPS. They both were in the Hugh Carpenter era where they won the Sanix World Cup and the Waratah Shield and my kids both played NSW and now play overseas. But having friends kids attending the school now I have been told there is no push to develop the Rugby Program as they did those days. Looking at the 16s NSW there wasnt any Westfields boys in the team (correct me if im wrong). What are they to do as I was told selectors dont look at CHS boys but more GPS.

If you really want to know whats doing re Westfield and Endeavour, the kids get there and think that they are at the big time, not starting. At the recent open RL at Toronto a close mate said he couldn't believe the ego's and whats more, the pandering by the staff to these boys. He said it was beyond embarrassing. any of the boys that show potential in either rugby code at these schools soon learn how to manipulate it. If the selectors see through it, they may wake up to themselves and finally become a force to be reckoned with. if not, no.

 

[CTPE]

At St Dominic's in Penrith I believe.

Do they have a team in the CCC rugby?

 

[Brian Westlake]

Do they have a team in the CCC rugby?

Very heavy with Cricket here with Tim Spain involved with NSW and Aus schoolboys. Know nothing of rugby from any of the snouts

 

[whatever]

Do they have a team in the CCC rugby?

St Doms is part of the MCS; they play in a third term union comp (after the completion of the league comp) in the U14s and U16s. One round about 5 games then straight final 1v 2. Teams are normally - St Doms, Patrician Blacktown, Marist Eastwood, St Pauls Greystanes, All Saints Liverpool, Marist Dundas, Marist Parramatta, Patrician Fairfield and St Gregs Campbelltown. Not all schools field teams in the Rugby comp - normally fought out between St Doms and Patrician Blacktown

 

[Hugh Jarse]

"As you sow, so shall ye reap".

If CCC (MCS in this case) continue to schedule their internal rugby competition AFTER the NSW Schools Competition, then their teams will continue to go into that tournament underprepared with the result that players will not be given the best opportunity to impress the selectors.

The solution lies within the CCC bureaucracy. I know that school calenders are very crowded and it takes a long time to change things, but unless there is concerted lobbying for change then the status quo will remain.

In relation to the call for Independent Selectors for the 3 NSW teams at U16, yes. Unfortunately I can not see any parent organisation ARU or NSWRU prepared to take on the politics and vested interests of the various affiliated bodies that perpetuate the BS come selection time (NSWJRU, NSWCJRU, SJRU and NSWSRU).

Queensland seem to have it sorted, or have they? I recall that there is always claims of bias, favouritism and politics at U16 selection time, and IIRC they have open trials and independent selectors from QRU.

 

[whatever]

"As you sow, so shall ye reap".

If CCC (MCS in this case) continue to schedule their internal rugby competition AFTER the NSW Schools Competition, then their teams will continue to go into that tournament underprepared with the result that players will not be given the best opportunity to impress the selectors.

The solution lies within the CCC bureaucracy. I know that school calenders are very crowded and it takes a long time to change things, but unless there is concerted lobbying for change then the status quo will remain.

In relation to the call for Independent Selectors for the 3 NSW teams at U16, yes. Unfortunately I can not see any parent organisation ARU or NSWRU prepared to take on the politics and vested interests of the various affiliated bodies that perpetuate the BS come selection time (NSWJRU, NSWCJRU, SJRU and NSWSRU).

Queensland seem to have it sorted, or have they? I recall that there is always claims of bias, favouritism and politics at U16 selection time, and IIRC they have open trials and independent selectors from QRU.

(Forgot to list Holy Cross Ryde Post #245)

Again, I have no issue with your comments but these schools are historically league schools and will remain league schools, it has only been through the efforts of people like Chris Hicks (mentioned above) that a limited age rugby comp (U14s & U16s) has commenced after the completion of their league comp.

Only a small minority of students will play village rugby and some (league players) have been identified by the ARU and are part of the JGS process.

While a certain part of my body points to the ground; these schools will not be changing to rugby union as the dominant rugby code - it is not on, just as the GPS schools will not suddenly start playing league from this weekend; but that does not justify the continual non-selection of CCC players in the NSW school side; it should be on performance in the trials and championships. Therefore, a GPS coach and a number of selectors (GPS, CAS & IAS) actually selecting a NSW side is unacceptable. As others have inferred on this thread and I have no reason to disbelieve - the basis of the team is already selected pre-championships (predominantly GPS) & maybe a few are added to suit the final squad make up.

The player/s performances count for zip and that is disgraceful. As I have said before, on average, based on the performance of the U16s CCC team over the last few years there should have been about 3-4 players in the NSW schools side per year.

By the NSWRU or ARU allowing this current selection bias to continue is only disfranchising potential future quality senior players.

As you have previously quoted: "Give me a child until the age of 7 and I will give you the man"; probably a better one for the current situation would be "piss a quality CCC rugby player off at 16 and I will show you a future league player".

 

[Hugh Jarse]

With today's announcement of the Australian Schoolboys Touring Squad, probably timely to bump this thread, as a safety valve.

Several Boys dropped from the Squad. Several promoted from Aust A's to the touring squad. Several smokies not previously selected in Aust A's.

Congratulations and commiserations as applicable. Guarantee this will not be the first time they have been/will be dropped or promoted. When the going gets tough, the tough get going.

“It is not the critic that counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood and strives valiantly… Who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at least knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with the cold and timid souls who have never known neither victory nor defeat.”

Theodore Roosevelt

Now get out there and beat the bloody Little Darknessers, just like we did last year.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The 2012/2013 Junior Gold Programme (JGP) commences next Week (Week Commencing 29 October) and runs over 16 Sessions through to Week commencing 18 March 2013.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The 2012/2013 Junior Gold Programme (JGP) commences next Week (Week Commencing 29 October) and runs over 16 Sessions through to Week commencing 18 March 2013.

More info HJ?

 

[whatever]

The 2012/2013 Junior Gold Programme (JGP) commences next Week (Week Commencing 29 October) and runs over 16 Sessions through to Week commencing 18 March 2013.

Any announcment of the squad members.

This extended JGP program (16 weeks, up from about 10-12 weeks in previous years) will rule a lot of dual coders (Matt and Ball players) out, as their trials commence early February and comp in late Feb.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

ARU Web Site says
The Junior Gold Program operates in 24 training centres across Australia selecting the potential best young players in the U15-18 year age groups outside of the National Gold Squad. Approximately 750 players will be selected for this program each year. The program is managed and coached by professional coaches from the ARU High Performance Unit and by the Junior Gold Coaching team – an experienced pool of accredited coaches throughout Australia.

More from ARU Web Site here


Inside Shoulder, Last year, there was a mass mail out via Sydney Juniors encouraging players to nominate for Junior Gold Programme.

This year I believe it is a little more targeted and the application process was a little more low key. According to the ARU web site invitations have closed. Invitations to join the JGP have been issued from "The Centre".

The "chosen ones" should already know, and I would anticipate that ARU will post the list on the ARU web site sometime next week.

 

[Rugby Mum]

These selections have been happening over the season. Generally the regional academies observe discuss with the valued input of the ARU, and the squads announced on the websites of these academies. Because this structure is differrent in Sydney, they usually invite the Sydney kids to a camp to include the talent there too.
The Central coast has listed their squad for 2013, and from here these kids work with the Academy overseen by the ARU for the kids development and progress. Some of the kids have been in the academy for 2 or 3 years.

 

[Dark Shark]

Any announcment of the squad members.

This extended JGP program (16 weeks, up from about 10-12 weeks in previous years) will rule a lot of dual coders (Matt and Ball players) out, as their trials commence early February and comp in late Feb.

I have found in QLD that the regional areas usually publish names of the boys who make the various programmes. But in Brisbane it seems to become very secret squirrel. The only time I have found out selected squad members is usually through family and friends of those selected.

 

[CTPE]

The selection process was two tiered - identified players were invited to participate in the JGP. Other players were invited to trials held at Riverview two weeks ago and those picked there are being/have been notified of their selection.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The selection process was two tiered - identified players were invited to participate in the JGP. Other players were invited to trials held at Riverview two weeks ago and those picked there are being/have been notified of their selection.

Do they post a list of who got in?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Junior Gold Programme lists are generally released on the ARU News page.

Typically this is very close to the programme starting, or in the week or two after the programme has started.

National Gold Squad is a little more masonic in nature, and generally not published until well after the programme has started.

 

[Maorifullah]

There's too much politics and junior rugby these days the coaches son always makes it and obviously the coaches team. The coach and selectors should have no ties with the players or teams they come from and they should base it purely on talent and how certain players play together

 

[Jasdec]

Wouldn't expect any lists until after 02/11/2012 when the acceptance and payment forms are due.
Interesting to note that some participants from previous years don't get what the program is about.
They have been weaned onto selection and representation through school and club rugby as the prime source of advancement in rugby to higher levels and question the strategic use of this program in their "careers".

• More time spent in the off season when the demands are there for Summer sports especially through school sports programs.
• "Selection in the JGP doesn't guarantee selection in any school or representative programs."
• Targeted at the players who made/nearly made it during the course of the season and obviously have talent ... keep em keen and mean.
• Meant to be an "off and pre season training program for 14 -18 yo". Runs through to the end of March 2013.
• Brings the participants into a more professional environment with the associated expectations.

I think the idea/concept is good however the execution/explanation could be somewhat better.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

In what way better Jasdec ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk