Selection politics and bias, Gold Squads unfairness etc.

[sarcophilus]

ohMum2
I reckon you might even have some dirt under your nails still.
nearly got you mixed up with the other Rugby mum her postings don't have the same pedigree, a little more Central coast and a little less Lindfield/Beecroft say

 

[Inside Shoulder]

We are hosting a garden party next weekend so it would be great if you could pop over and help out. My son will have completed his Gold Squad training so no need to bring your sons, he would have done his bit mingling with the common man. Maybe you could help out with the trophy room renovation? I was thinking neo-colonialist would be very striking with some 2012 influences of entitlement that is, I am entitled to it because I earn the $$$.

sarcophilus views shouldn't be dismissed just because he has a chip on his shoulder.

 

[Gooner]

So the private schools help ARU build the barrel and the clubs, and schools government and outside the public and wannabe public school systems stock it with the.

If they built bigger barrels you would get more fish.

 

[sarcophilus]

I have been discussing unfairness and politics and relating it to Rugby weather it is gold squad or other school boy related stuff as per the title of this thread

surely the point is perceived inequalities and their causes. Addressing an opine and demonstrating where it is wrong may help. Dismissing it as class warfare.....

meritocracy and socialism are both flawed theories as they assume a level playing field high fibre hippie poo floats as well.

the nice stuff said in this recently only serves to moisten the pockets of the managers of the system. I would think plain talking isn't out of place here as if you perceive unfairness should be the subject of frustration

we cannot discuss individuals and their selection and I would not want to so we are left with generalisations and systemic observations.

I am enjoying the game, the opinions are not out of place or any less valid than others. If I have offended you or cut a bit close to the bone I am sorry
but I am up for it if you are

 

[sarcophilus]

If they built bigger barrels you would get more fish.

and keep the seaguls away so they can bread

 

[I like to watch]

Let's not forget that this is a rugby forum discussing selection bias and NGS/JGS. This isn't a place for chip on the shoulder rhetoric and class warfare. I have seen this adage repeatedly on this forum, "talent will always rise to the top"; it might just take more time and perseverance (assuming of course there is talent). And that is what should count together with the love of playing. The rest frankly, is BS.

If there is anyone who believes that "the cream always rises to the top"please explain to me the point of these elite squads.
Surely these "deserving kids"(as pompously described by a parent in a thread last year)are going to be Wallaby superstars with or without these squads?
If so why have the squads at all?

 

[Rugby Mum 2]

If there is anyone who believes that "the cream always rises to the top"please explain to me the point of these elite squads.
Surely these "deserving kids"(as pompously described by a parent in a thread last year)are going to be Wallaby superstars with or without these squads?
If so why have the squads at all?

These programs are great for the game and go to addressing peoples concerns that the ARU is adequately cultivating its junior program and staving off many of these boys playing and wanting to play League. All sports do this from netball to Basketball, AFL and cricket.

And they are deserving kids, the majority have been selected on ability and there is nothing wrong with that- it should be applauded and cultivated. My point is that if a boy isn't selected in one of these programs, it doesn't mean the end of the line , if they have talent and commitment.

I want my son to train with NGS but am happy that he is in JGS at the moment.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If only I could understand your point. I took particular umbrage at your point made re "professional" people vs the workers. My son lives in an affluent suburb, goes to a leading GPS school and loves playing rugby. He would be the same if he lived in a less affluent suburb and attended a State school or otherwise. He may even have garnered a scholarship if his circumstances were different. THere is however no doubt he would have been scouted by someone, if they are doing their jobs correctly, as a person of interest wherever he was. "He is 15 but let's keep a watching brief on him" - is probably the approach taken to him and a lot of boys his age. 5 or 6 years is a long time for these boys to hone their skills, bulk up, traverse puberty and still be interested in playing competitive rugby.

Your views are valid. So are mine.

But - its not actually about your boy, as far as i am concerned, anyway.
And its not about my boy either: he fits the description of your son - in fact maybe youre my wife .

Its actually about what the ARU does to make the bigger barrels (thanks Gooner ) that will be needed as the other codes make ever increasing inroads into the finite talent pool.
Its not class warfare: its actually about drawing Wallabies from the widest possible catchment so that the Wallabies are great.
Having great Wallaby teams feeds interest in the game and gets non-traditional rugby playing youngsters out there playing the game they play in heaven.
That's what I'm about.
You're boy would play the game anyway - the ones who may be lost to league they need to find more spots for them in a program that looks after their interest in rugby

 

[whatever]

If only I could understand your point. I took particular umbrage at your point made re "professional" people vs the workers. My son lives in an affluent suburb, goes to a leading GPS school and loves playing rugby. He would be the same if he lived in a less affluent suburb and attended a State school or otherwise. He may even have garnered a scholarship if his circumstances were different. THere is however no doubt he would have been scouted by someone, if they are doing their jobs correctly, as a person of interest wherever he was. "He is 15 but let's keep a watching brief on him" - is probably the approach taken to him and a lot of boys his age. 5 or 6 years is a long time for these boys to hone their skills, bulk up, traverse puberty and still be interested in playing competitive rugby.

Your views are valid. So are mine.

Hey Rugby MumII are you able to define, what is a leading GPS school and what is a non-leading GPS school?

By the way, did you ever hang out at Castle Hill RSL with the real Rugby Mum? (in-joke)

 

[whatever]

Yes I can. And no I don't.

OK, then, what is the answer. And should it not be; no, I did not (hope that was not taught at MLC or PLC).

 

[sarcophilus]

If only I could understand your point.

Your views are valid. So are mine.

There are suggestions and examples through this thread and elsewhere that imply these schools yield a heavy influence over junior programs provided by the ARU as well as team selection that should be outside these schools control or influence

These schools are generously supporting the gold squads? Is the motivation about themselves and the perceptions they like to portray of themselves to each other as well as those outside the fold.The motivation stops at year12 and you wouldn't expect any more

They have the resources to conduct similar programs amongst themselves that is fine and their prerogative. Have they threatened the ARU with we will throw away our traditions and set up an exclusive Rugby league contest .. I doubt it.

Does the ARU have the resources to conduct this program away from these schools. If so Maybe they should focus the resources in the areas that could do with support, not to the exclusion of anyone, but for anyone to take advantage of the help provided by the ARU their players could be made/left available for the club rugby teams that struggle for consistent quality competitions or facilities or at least not penalised for not making a choice between the two.

I.S. and R.M.2 if they indeed share a son will have him going into u16 next year therefore year 10 or 11 at their choice of school, a read of their material on other threads give some allusion to which. Will they be abandoning, or made to, the club side he used s a vehicle to be spotted over the past 4 or 5 years. So as a result that club will be less two valuable volunteers and a player that would lift his team mates confidence and share the skills newly acquired at the gold squads, as well as extend the opposition elsewhere in Sydney and help develop it. Club rugby will be further diminished when their son's school is approached by a front row team mate that has seen an opening in the french horn section of the school band but his parents can only afford for him to attend at a substantial discount. (for those with no imagination or understanding of hyperbole I made it up)

some effort needs to be put into spreading the word and broadening the appeal if Rugby is to develop and prosper. Are you going to get the best results by further propping up a thing self supporting or will you be better served by providing some foundations for a new house

I didn't invent the perception of Rugby and the establishment/public school image it enjoys in Australia suggesting it is BS will not make it go away

 

[Wood Rat]

See all of you at knox then? should be fun!!!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

See all of you at knox then? should be fun!!!

Not me.
Sacro I do struggle to follow at times.
RM2 and I don't share a son.
My son's club days will grind to a halt when his club mates, not him, are prevented by their various gps schools from playing club rugby.
He will not be able to play Saturday club, I assume, because of his less-than-leading-GPS-school's rules about playing for it.
These programs would be good for him.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[sarcophilus]

I did get that you don't share a son I was just running with your quip
"she might be my wife"
I will try to limit to one thought and a brief "proof" not so many essays
I hope my ranting didn't drive RM2 to removing her posts as the intention is play not to offend, as I did not sire a son at 19 I will not be there either

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I did get that you don't share a son I was just running with your quip
"she might be my wife"
I will try to limit to one thought and a brief "proof" not so many essays
I hope my ranting didn't drive RM2 to removing her posts as the intention is play not to offend, as I did not sire a son at 19 I will not be there either

I was more worried about others not getting "our" quip.
I think what has happened here is a perfect example of the problem I am, and i think you are, addressing: as soon as anyone questions the breadth of these programs and the difficulty of getting non GPS/CAS/ISA kids into them, or getting them a competitive regular game of union, people take it personally and seem to think that its their kid who is being targeted for non selection in the various teams - despite this not being part of the team selection process!
The WASPy nature, even if it is only a perception, of the game is not conducive to its growth and growth is the only solution to remaining viable.

 

[Jasdec]

See all of you at knox then? should be fun!!!

Sorry Woodrat it looks like i'll be joining Gooner at Scots. I'll be the fat bastard with a goatee drinking a double shot skinny cap with caramel trying to wake up after my little drive. Enjoy the weekend.
Come back RM2 don't let psycho sarco scare you off !!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Queensland JGP names announced. Too many to list here so click here or here to go see for yourself.

Central Coast JPG selections are here.

The Central Coast Academy of Sport would like to congratulate the following athletes on gaining selection to the 2012-13 ARU Junior Gold Program; Brenton Acreman, Kirt Anthony, Keanu Ashwell, Liam Baker, Zach Botfield, Dylan Burdon, Mathew Burraston, Dean Clarkestone, Ryan Connolly, Alexander Dark, Sam Evans, William Finley, Corey Fleming, Damien Fleming, Brock Hammond, Joshua Harrod, Marcus Hundt, Thomas Lavelle, Joel Laws, Turst Leger, Scott McQueen, Jackson Parkes, Robert Peden, Caleb Pritchard, Brendon Robertson, Kane Rodway, Jakob Segdman, Max Shearwood, Maxwell Stewart, Shaun Townsend, Will Van Egmond-Jones, Josh Vainikolo, Lapana Vitale, Pat Walton, Connor Watson, Ben Wheeler, and James Wilkinson.
Coaches; Paul Sinclair, Reg Delaney, Greg Hulme, Bradd Hoban, Aaron Sculli & Gary Head.

Expect Sydney Squad to be published soon.

Congratulations to all the kids selected.

To those who missed out, many clubs and districts run off season programmes similar to the JGP. Ask around. Stay fit. Keep trying. Be your best and enjoy rugby.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Queensland JGP names announced. Too many to list here so click here or here to go see for yourself.

Central Coast JPG selections are here.



Expect Sydney Squad to be published soon.

Congratulations to all the kids selected.

To those who missed out, many clubs and districts run off season programmes similar to the JGP. Ask around. Stay fit. Keep trying. Be your best and enjoy rugby.

enjoy rugby

 

[gilbert15]

At the NGS (National Gold Squad) introduction meeting on Monday, Manu displayed a list of the selected 2013 participants, is that list available?
He also stated that the 40-odd players listed was the largest intake in the 9 years that NGS has been going. A father of a 15 yr old told me that his son was
one of about 4or5 15 year olds!.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ It is not untypical for the NGS (Sydney branch) to have a small number of 15 year olds in it.

I would anticipate that both the young'uns from NSW Schools U16's would be in NGS (Sydney), Henry Hutchinson and Jack MacGregor from Riverview IIRC.

Add in a couple of others from NSW U15 state team and "you know it makes sense".

The two 15 year old lads from the U16 Schools team did not look out of place at the U16 National tournament.

Also IIRC George Smith pointed out that Jum Woodhill (Shore) turned 16 during the tournament, so he man not be all that older than a lad born in Jan 97 and therefore qualified to play Under 15's.