• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Social Media Response to Wallabies Squad

Status
Not open for further replies.

Richo

John Thornett (49)
That in itself is a sign of bias.

How many code hoppers can you name that have gone to the Tahs and received large ARU top ups straight away?

How many for all the other teams?

If the best you can come up with is Folau and his pre-season top up, then I think your argument about bias in WAlly selections is all shot to shit.

Btw, I think it's pretty clear from other conversations that you and I have an almost identical view of what the Wallaby team to face the Lions should be. So as far as I'm concerned, this isn't a conversation about the team but about the process behind selections. Deans ain't great, but I have seen nothing beyond the vaguely circumstantial to suggest he's biased.
 

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
I don't think Deans is biased towards the Waratahs, I just think he is a shit selector.
Funny you say that Bowside, I said exactly that when Deans was appointed as Wallaby coach, and have said same a number of times, i don't think he a bad coach, more a bad selector.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
He has his favourites and sticks to them contrary to evidence, however he also doesn't seem to be able to get the best out of some players. Maybe he is suited more to provincial level where he has more time with the players.
 

ACT Crusader

Jim Lenehan (48)
He has his favourites and sticks to them contrary to evidence, however he also doesn't seem to be able to get the best out of some players. Maybe he is suited more to provincial level where he has more time with the players.

when he was the All Blacks backs/attack coach in a very short space of time (1.5 years) he certainly got the best out of Spencer, Mauger Umaga as a 10/12/13 combination. They were humming and that was a combination that Deans brought in from scratch
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
He has his favourites and sticks to them contrary to evidence, however he also doesn't seem to be able to get the best out of some players. Maybe he is suited more to provincial level where he has more time with the players.

So can you just help me with something Scotty- which players struggle at the top level because of their own abilities (or lack thereof) and which struggle because Deans 'can't get the best out of them'. It will help me a lot in future discussions.
.
 

BaysideBird

Bill Watson (15)
when he was the All Blacks backs/attack coach in a very short space of time (1.5 years) he certainly got the best out of Spencer, Mauger Umaga as a 10/12/13 combination. They were humming and that was a combination that Deans brought in from scratch

But think about it. Its awfully hard to mess up the All Blacks. The amount of depth that is in New Zealand and the strength of the NPC makes it virtually impossible to fuck up.

However with Australia, there seems to be limited depth in a lot of positions. For the All Blacks, if someone gets injured there is another 7 or 8 players waiting; for the Wallabies maybe 2 or 3 quality players. Sometimes none (halfback seems to be Genia and then no one. And then someone else, Nic White maybe.)
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
So can you just help me with something Scotty- which players struggle at the top level because of their own abilities (or lack thereof) and which struggle because Deans 'can't get the best out of them'. It will help me a lot in future discussions.
.

I'm just going to take a punt and say probably the ones that struggle with their own abilities would be the Rob Horne's, Dean Mumm's, Pat McCabe's, etc. that have never really regularly shown at Super Rugby level anything to show they are the best players in their position.

Then you'd have the Coopers, etc. that have been able to take Super Rugby by storm and look like the best players in their position, yet never capitalize at test level.

Simplistic view, and I can't speak fully for Scotty, but I'd say that's close to what he meant.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
So can you just help me with something Scotty- which players struggle at the top level because of their own abilities (or lack thereof) and which struggle because Deans 'can't get the best out of them'. It will help me a lot in future discussions.
.

Deans selects favourites contrary to evidence they aren't the best in their position:

McCabe, Dennis, Timani, Alexander (at 3), Simmons, Horne (previously), AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (at 15),

He doesn't seem to be able to come up with a game plan that suits, and gets the best out of our high energy, fast and creative players:

Slipper, Higgers, Genia, Cooper, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (at 13).
 

lewisr

Bill McLean (32)
Deans selects favourites contrary to evidence they aren't the best in their position:

McCabe, Dennis, Timani, Alexander (at 3), Simmons, Horne (previously), AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (at 15),

He doesn't seem to be able to come up with a game plan that suits, and gets the best out of our high energy, fast and creative players:

Slipper, Higgers, Genia, Cooper, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (at 13).


I think this is all part of his inability to select. The problem is that for those who don't know, Pulver has given the head coach significantly more power in respect to selecting players and the specialist assistant coaches. This might work well under someone like McKenzie who acts almost like a hands on CEO with business smarts but not for Deans whose strength clearly lies in his knowledge of the game.
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
I think this is all part of his inability to select. The problem is that for those who don't know, Pulver has given the head coach significantly more power in respect to selecting players and the specialist assistant coaches. This might work well under someone like McKenzie who acts almost like a hands on CEO with business smarts but not for Deans whose strength clearly lies in his knowledge of the game.

IIRC, Deans has had full control over selections since at least 2010. Can't remember before that.
 

lewisr

Bill McLean (32)
IIRC, Deans has had full control over selections since at least 2010. Can't remember before that.


Hmm ok I just know there was some sort of change this year to his role. Maybe it was just the coaching staff that he is now allowed to chose for himself. The aim was to "make the coach responsible for all his choices to ensure that excuses aren't made" apparently.
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
Not sure what you're talking about there. Deans hasn't changed assistants since Pulver took over. It's pretty standard practice for a coach to hire and fire their own assistants. I would suggest that one of Deans' key failures has been to build a strong, well-structured coaching staff.
 

lewisr

Bill McLean (32)
"I'm personally not a big fan of chopping and changing coaches," Pulver said when asked if Deans were safe in the Wallabies job. "Still I clearly want to hold my coach accountable for the performance of the team. The structural change I have just made means the Australian coach is accountable for appointing all the people who work with the Australian team … so they will be more accountable. But as of today, my sense is that there is some shared accountability between the coach, the players and the administrators. "

http://www.espnscrum.com/australia/rugby/story/182629.html

Richo

Edit: I personally believe this is a mistake under Deans. I was slightly off when I said it was assistant coaches but there has definitely been a change! I'm not crazy :D
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
What is Pulver actually saying there? I assume he means that Deans will now pick his own team manager and so on, since I'm certain that he already had the power to hire and fire his assistants. That said, there was a fair amount of conjecture that Totality Tony was appointed outside, or at least around, Deans.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
One of the things Deans values in his players more than just about anything is leadership. Pat McCabe was elevated to the leadership group under Deans because he is a straightforward, die- for-the-cause kind of bloke. Despite his relatively limited experience at the top level, too.

Under Cheika, the selection of Dennis as skipper was probably a surprise given the presence of a guy like Benn Robinson, but it is an inspired decision in hindsight. Cheika spent time in preseason getting inside the heads of his players, and picked the unassuming bloke from western Sydney who is all about hard work and seeing those around him succeed. I can even forgive him for pulling on that disgusting blue and gold hooped jersey at this point.

In the last few weeks Dennis has shown the kind of leadership Deans wants on the field as well, and probably saw in previous tours and campaigns for the Wallabies. Looking at the way the Tahs stuck to their guns against the Stormers, and the crucial decisions Dennis made in those last ten minutes, including his own physical presence at key moments, it is hard to leave the bloke out.

He's also the lineout caller for the Tahs, which everyone seems to think gives Simmons an automatic call up despite his many shortcomings.

So I think, yet again, we can call this contentious until the cows wander in for a feed and a bit of tit work, but Deans has his reasons, and none of them involve personally disagreeing with a bunch of idiots on a rugby forum.


That's pretty funny really, since I thought Dennis was the last man standing with any real potential as Captain. That position was supported by a large amount of discussion surroudning the subject all last year. Nobody else stood out at the Tahs for me and TBH nobody still does. I may have said it before but the Tahs contracted the wrong person to fill the 6 jumper, they could have got a decent captain as well.

There remains a dearth of top level leadership at the Tahs IMO.
 

ACT Crusader

Jim Lenehan (48)
But think about it. Its awfully hard to mess up the All Blacks. The amount of depth that is in New Zealand and the strength of the NPC makes it virtually impossible to fuck up.

However with Australia, there seems to be limited depth in a lot of positions. For the All Blacks, if someone gets injured there is another 7 or 8 players waiting; for the Wallabies maybe 2 or 3 quality players. Sometimes none (halfback seems to be Genia and then no one. And then someone else, Nic White maybe.)

Wayne Smith circa 00-01 might have a different view as would Mains....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top