South Africa to reintroduce quotas

[Baldric]

Scrubber, see if this helps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_South_Africa

 

[dru]

@Baldric that reference is utterly irrelevant. You confuse fact with politics.

@Scrubber My understanding on the quota is that formally there is simply white v black. So theoretically Indian, mixed race, Chinese, all contribute to the quota.

That is somewhat different to the political angst and expectation. Its not formalised and not detailed, but if the 'boks transform with 50% Indian +mixed race they will be just as stuffed politically as not being "transformed".

I look to the Griquas in this. A mixed race region (and provincial RU and Currie Cup team). They were formally defined under apartheid as "non white". And in the current era, I doubt very much that they will be accepted as black enough to be "transformed".

SA sporting politics is weird, Aussie norms dont apply.

 

[Hawko]

Braveheart I think you underestimate the reality.

"Half of the Springboks' squad will have to be players of colour by 2019, according to transformation plans revealed in South African Sunday newspaper Rapport. In addition, 60% of that number will be required to be black Africans"

So that means that of the 23, 11/12 need to be of color, with 7 to 8 of those Africans.

Just think for a second. That's effectively two seasons from now.

7/8 Africans in the 23. Where are they? Mvovo, Mtwarira, Kolisi, Mapoe, Nyakana, Notshe?, Ntubeni, Mohoje?

Three of these players on this list can truly be included now on merit - Beast, Nyakane, Mapoe. The others are NOT international standard. Good Super players but not test players. Kolisi and Mvovo have been awful in a Bok jumper. Plain woeful. the last three on the list are unproven and in my opinion would not make any other extended international test squad.

Somehow four new African guys have to be proven in the next two years to be up to it. There is a VERY small list of REAL candidates. This is the problem. Not the handful of guys that should be there. The complete lack of depth to really choose from.

As for the "colored" players we have Habana (old), de Allende (up and down like a yo-yo), Pietersen (over the hill), Jantjes, Skosaan (yes please for the last two).

I think it's a scary picture. The Bok coach is going to be forced to try out people who otherwise may NEVER have been selected.

This situation can only be described is a miserable failure like many things in South Africa. 24 years after apartheid and they are still fucking around trying to work this out.

So. Colored/African players who now belong on a Bok 23 TRULY on merit and form:

Jantjes
Skosaan
Beast
Nyakana
Mapoe

That's it on my list.

The problem really comes in when you have to leave out REAL form players like Janse v Rensburg (the best 12 in SA by MILES), Jaco Kriel (world-class), Malcolm Marx (gets better by the minute) and there are more. The Bulls have three guys playing at blind side who in my opinion all have a chance of making just about any test squad right now except the All Blacks (and they also have Jackpot back in the mix). Not ONE of these three will make the Bok 23 because you just have to play Kolisi, Mohoje or Notshe as you blindside and backup flanker to make up numbers`.

We are going to see an even bigger exodus of young players leaving SA in the next two years than ever before.

It is a grim picture.

The Waratahs definely need a lineout/tight forward lock with skill and experience. We would take Etsebeth, du Toit, de Jaager or anyone else of that value if it would help advance the SA rugby development program.

 

[stoff]

@Baldric that reference is utterly irrelevant. You confuse fact with politics.

@Scrubber My understanding on the quota is that formally there is simply white v black. So theoretically Indian, mixed race, Chinese, all contribute to the quota.

That is somewhat different to the political angst and expectation. Its not formalised and not detailed, but if the 'boks transform with 50% Indian +mixed race they will be just as stuffed politically as not being "transformed".

I look to the Griquas in this. A mixed race region (and provincial RU and Currie Cup team). They were formally defined under apartheid as "non white". And in the current era, I doubt very much that they will be accepted as black enough to be "transformed".

SA sporting politics is weird, Aussie norms dont apply.

Dru, I think if you go back in the thread the answer is there. 50% of the team need to be players of colour (I take this as meaning non-White, but don't actually know). 60% of these, or 30% of the total team must be black. Will qualify that by saying I don't know anything for fact and am only basing that on other posts



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dru]

Dru, I think if you go back in the thread the answer is there. 50% of the team need to be players of colour (I take this as meaning non-White, but don't actually know). 60% of these, or 30% of the total team must be black. Will qualify that by saying I don't know anything for fact and am only basing that on other posts



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stoff. its too important for me to rely on second hand conversations on a forum. Also something I have spent some time researching. Tonight I couldnt quickly find the particular quote I was looking for. Here however is the formal transformation plan. Numbers on black-black are actually low compared to generic-black. I'm pretty confident this does not match the expectations of groups like the ANC, but you may need to dig deeper around this.

http://www.sarugby.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/SARUSTP.pdf

If you speak to white African rugby fans, you will find a common theme around "how black is black". My earlier comment on the Griquas stands. Its fascinating history but must be frustrating for them.

 

[Quick Hands]

Here's the policy (all 52 pages of it) if you want the principles being enunciated.

http://www.srsa.gov.za/MediaLib/Home/DocumentLibrary/Transformation Charter - FINAL Aug 2012.pdf

And here's the official SARU plan to meet government policy. (58 pages)

50% of teams to be black African for all levels of rugby by 2019. (including coaches and referees)

http://www.sarugby.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/SARUSTP.pdf

 

[Scrubber2050]

It seems to me from a bit of research that Black Africans are Sub Saharan Blacks, with 100% pure Black African ethnicity.

Same with all other pure ethnic groups (100% pure)

If you are less than that then ultimately you qualify as being a "Coloured"

What a load of bullshit - one country, one people.

I do agree however that extra emphasis needs to be placed on youth rugby programs in ALL of the different ethic groups within South Africa so that a "fairer" representation of non-white players actually make the grade and ultimately the Boks based on performance and ability not because of ANY colour.

Thank shit we live in Australia.

 

[Braveheart81]

I firmly believe however, that you must be an Australian citizen to play for your national side. It frankly gives me the shits that a kiwi passport holder can play for Australia.

Samu Kerevi has just become an Australian citizen so you don't have to get angry next time he gets selected for the Wallabies.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Samu Kerevi has just become an Australian citizen so you don't have to get angry next time he gets selected for the Wallabies.

Totally unbalanced view. I don't get angry.

I expressed MY opinion. Nothing more nothing less.

Anyway it is good for Kerevi to have taken my view on board.

PS Congratulations to Kerevi for making that large and committed step.

 

[Upthenuts]

Couldn't the quota "system" be engaged here. Plenty of PI lads get the gig. Should Australian rugby pick players on a percentage basis according to their ethnicity ?

Short answer is fuck no. We are all Australian (if you are an Australian citizen), irrespective of where you originated from.

I firmly believe however, that you must be an Australian citizen to play for your national side. It frankly gives me the shits that a kiwi passport holder can play for Australia.

half the queensland squad would be blocking possible australian players from making the wallabies then

 

[dru]

half the queensland squad would be blocking possible australian players from making the wallabies then

I know you are talking rhetorically, but from the pub (count could be shakey) looking at the Reds site, there are 18 out of 42 born overseas. Including the marquis Tui and Goromaru. No idea how many have not naturalised. I call Cack on your claim.

That's without looking at the Qld born who bolster Canberra, Melbourne and Perth.

We do OK providing potential Wallabies.

 

[Quick Hands]

half the queensland squad would be blocking possible australian players from making the wallabies then

Queensland have very flexible borders when it comes to sporting eligibility.

 

[Blue]

I do agree however that extra emphasis needs to be placed on youth rugby programs in ALL of the different ethic groups within South Africa so that a "fairer" representation of non-white players actually make the grade and ultimately the Boks based on performance and ability not because of ANY colour.

Well this is what has been happening for the last 20 years. Apparently now when you go to the schools tournaments and look at the rep teams at junior levels there are a lot more black kids. Some teams easily up to 50% plus. But it takes time for enough cream to rise to the surface. The fact is that rugby is not the sport of the masses in south Africa. The representation can therefore never be equal.

There are a lot more black players in the under 20's as well. It will just take time for more of them to make the step up. The numbers will grow. But the ANC is hell bent on using this as a political play so logic or reason is absolutely irrelevant here. They need to portray rugby as the white mans sport for which they deserve be punished. Populist politics. South Africa is a deeply divided country and this will not likely change any time soon.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Looks to be some confusion over the quota issue. Just to clarify: