Super Rugby Round One: Reds vs Waratahs. Suncorp Feb 24

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Watched the replay last night and really enjoyed it. Considering the conditions I thought the pace and skill of the game were pretty damn good. McReight and Wilson were immense for the Reds. Who's going to try and convince me that Fraser isn't the best open side in the country?

The Reds played with some adventure, but also got the basics right - they won most of their own ball at the set pieces and also at the breakdown.

I thought the Tahs were pretty good value for most of the game too. They were clearly working on getting their big bodies in motion and winning the collisions. They also showed some nice hands a few times, especially in the first half. They just couldn't get their hands on the pill often enough in the second to exert the requisite pressure on the Reds defence.

I have high hopes for the QLD'ers this weekend. We need another team up there with the Brumbies to fly the Aussie flag and I'm hoping they're it.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

One thing I should also mention is that some of these guys from our U20's programmes are starting to come through and look pretty good, which is pleasing.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Ok, that was an enjoyable game, even if my team didn't win. Well done Reds.

The game went in the direction I suspected, with the Tah's much like the Rebels bringing the attitude but not having the finishing. They have a few areas they really need to be working on, such as their maul defence and whilst I thought their defensive structure was much better, they dont appear to be able to sustain the rush with too many offsides.

As for some of the controversies;
- I thought the Tah try was fine as it was back out of the hands (I think so people need to really clue up on this area, not the first or last time we'll see similar.
- I thought the Jorgensen/Petaia try was a 50/50. Even in slow motion it looked like it was simultaneous to me and probably didn't deserve a try/sanction, but I can see the benefit being given to the attacking player/team. Though Jordy did knocked one on earlier so I'm not even sure it's probable he scores there
- Scrums were interesting. I'm not sure he (Doleman) got them all right. The one at around 68-9mins with the Tah's in the A-zone I'm pretty sure the Reds LHP was well and truly boring in. The scrum moves sideways more than forward. I'm really not sure how he gave that one to the Reds. Be interested what others think, but I think the Reds got away with one there.

Overall I was happy to see some improvement and heart from the Tahs. I'm still not convinced that the attack is where it should be for a squad that has had a reasonable amount of cohesion now. All the injuries obviously haven't helped and as others mentioned the depth really isn't there. I thought for the short notice he likely got Walton stood up in this game for the Tahs. Though he wasn't always on song I also didn't mind Vailanu and his little rush, low chop role he seemed to have in defence.

Lots of work ons for both teams, but the Reds a lot further along.

Yes Molman, I agree with that observation. Ravi (?) was definitely boring in at something like a 45 degree angle.

I was also thinking that a couple of penalties against Angus Bell probably went the wrong way too. Nonngorr finshed flat on his face while Bell was still on his feet crouched over. Bell got done for hinging but it looked more to me that Nonngorr was falling well before Bell started to bend further.

Good thing the Reds know how to maul off a lineout close to the line Three tries, was it? Such exciting, exhilarating play (sarcasm). Tahs were more disappointing than I thought they'd be.

Maybe time for some reality checks next week with Reds facing the Canes and Brumbies facing the Chiefs.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Im just going to leave it alone now but what im actually saying is involving the TMO unnecessarily is bad for the game. If hypothetically the ref just gave Qld a penalty and they went to the break with another 3 points would you be on here wingeing that it should have been a penalty try and a yellow card for that?

KOB, the incident actually occurred so close or even over the tryline, that if the ref had thought a penalty was deserved it would have been a penalty try in any case. He couldn't in all conscience have ruled otherwise. Of course, if he had ruled the tackle legitimate, it would have resulted in a scrum or line dropout, not a penalty as you are wanting.

 

[Adam84]

Yes Molman, I agree with that observation. Ravi (?) was definitely boring in at something like a 45 degree angle.

I was also thinking that a couple of penalties against Angus Bell probably went the wrong way too. Nonngorr finshed flat on his face while Bell was still on his feet crouched over. Bell got done for hinging but it looked more to me that Nonngorr was falling well before Bell started to bend further.

Good thing the Reds know how to maul off a lineout close to the line Three tries, was it? Such exciting, exhilarating play (sarcasm). Tahs were more disappointing than I thought they'd be.

Maybe time for some reality checks next week with Reds facing the Canes and Brumbies facing the Chiefs.

Despite the sarcasm here, It was actually an entertaining game. And importantly I don’t think a (reds) fan left the stadium who wasn’t happy with the product despite the weather. Which is really all we can hope for as rugby fans right about now if the game is to survive.

 

[TSR]

Yes Molman, I agree with that observation. Ravi (?) was definitely boring in at something like a 45 degree angle.

I was also thinking that a couple of penalties against Angus Bell probably went the wrong way too. Nonngorr finshed flat on his face while Bell was still on his feet crouched over. Bell got done for hinging but it looked more to me that Nonngorr was falling well before Bell started to bend further.

Good thing the Reds know how to maul off a lineout close to the line Three tries, was it? Such exciting, exhilarating play (sarcasm). Tahs were more disappointing than I thought they'd be.

Maybe time for some reality checks next week with Reds facing the Canes and Brumbies facing the Chiefs.

Look at Bells arms/shoulders. He never had any intent other than to collapse the scrum.

Edit- actually I should clarify I only noticed that once. Didn’t pay enough attention to the others. But there was definitely one where Bell pulled Nonggorr straight forward and down.

 

[Adam84]

show me prop who says he doesn’t cheat and I’ll show you a liar

 

[Ignoto]

Good thing the Reds know how to maul off a lineout close to the line Three tries, was it? Such exciting, exhilarating play (sarcasm). Tahs were more disappointing than I thought they'd be.

No wonder Barnaby drinks himself stupid, dealing with the downers that is a native Canberrian would crush even the most resilient of people.

 

[molman]

Just finished my rewatch after having been there, a few more thoughts:

For the Reds:
- I thought Hodgman did some really good solid work around the ground, particularly on the carry, he's a real bonus for us this year.
- Paisami just looks so bloody ready for it this year, it's great to see.
- The McReight, Wilson, McDermott link just keeps getting better. It's great having Wright back out there too, I think he really frees up the others to play their natural game.
- Both 10s were great, Lynagh's kicking and control wins out for me. That said, I do think we might see them swap the start occasionally so McLaughlin-Phillips can take advantage of fresher runners and Lynagh can close things out with his control.
- Was more visible in the stadium but it was good to see the bodies in motion and second line with Tate often dropping in as a the playmaker for it. It wasn't as consistent as it needs to be but it's clearly something they're building.
- Maul was an absolute weapon, it looks well formed but the tahs defence was also poor, so we'll have to wait and see how strong it is.
- We switched off a bit too often, particularly after we built a lead in the second half. 1st round and the conditions probably played a role, but we can't afford that against the top teams.
- Mixed game from Petaia - dangerous with ball in hand, but isolated too often. Caught out in defence at fullback but kicked brilliantly, particularly the return with interest on the fly around 62 minutes. Needs to be out there but I still think wing is the spot for him with Campbell at fullback.
- Loved all the shots of Les Kiss in the booth, seemed really energized and it's hard not to like him. That said it's probably easy to show well when your team opens the season with that performance. The way Tate talked about him in the post match suggests the players have really bought in and embraced him too.

For the tahs:
- As previously mentioned the kicking was horrible, but the one exception to that was Walton - he kicked well with low stabs through to take advantage of the wet, skidding turf, similar to what the Reds were doing. He was looking a million times better at centre than fullback.
- Holloway was an absolute pest in the way you want from a lock, really found the balance well. Unfortunately the lineout and maul defence was poor, which he bears some responsibility for.
- Very mixed game from Nawaqanitawase - a good intercept for a try and turnover on the line, but his other flashy moments were followed by bad errors - A classy kick dummy into a shanked kick to give the Reds good field position and an athletic bat back to keep a 50/22 in field only to leave Jorgensen swamped in goal for a 5m scrum. It was shades of his play a few years ago, exciting but frustratingly incomplete.
- I thought Pietsch was very solid, but really needs to improve his finishing/decision making near the line. Seems ridiculous to say for a guy with a brace to his name, but he very nearly botched the 2nd throwing a pass that should never been thrown and getting a lucky rebound.
- Really going to need guys like Gleeson to stand up if the tahs are to lift this season. The carries just didn't have the penetration or venom of the Reds last night and they tended to run straight into the teeth of the defence and get stopped in their tracks.
- There were sparks there for the tahs, particularity when Wilson came on and lifted the pace. If Gordon can't find his form decisions might need to be made sooner rather than later.

Fair summation. As I said in my post, the Tah's attack just isn't humming. I'm not sure how much that is Foketi missing, but they're just not there yet. On the positive I feel they have the players to do better. Nawaqanitawase & Pietsch are both capable players and show moments of class. Jorgensen for his age continues to have some really nice moments too and is such a step up from Walton trying to fit in out back. I agree Wilson picked up the tempo too.

For the record I went back and rewatched the Jorgensen penalty try again and I think they got it right when you look at the reverse angle shot, it looks like he touches that left arm fractionally early, but boy is it close when we're slowing it down to fractions of a second. The yellow really does feel harsh though (yes I know the laws).

 

[Brumby Runner]

Despite the sarcasm here, It was actually an entertaining game. And importantly I don’t think a (reds) fan left the stadium who wasn’t happy with the product despite the weather. Which is really all we can hope for as rugby fans right about now if the game is to survive.

No wonder Barnaby drinks himself stupid, dealing with the downers that is a native Canberrian would crush even the most resilient of people.

Brumbies fans have had to put up with misguided sarcastic comments for years about their only way of scoring was through the rolling maul. It is only fair to share the love when another side learns how to do it.

And believe it or not, Barnaby doesn't need nor does he rely on Canberrans of any ilk (Sydney-sider myself before moving here with work) to carry on in his inimitable manner.

 

[molman]

Yes Molman, I agree with that observation. Ravi (?) was definitely boring in at something like a 45 degree angle.

I was also thinking that a couple of penalties against Angus Bell probably went the wrong way too. Nonngorr finshed flat on his face while Bell was still on his feet crouched over. Bell got done for hinging but it looked more to me that Nonngorr was falling well before Bell started to bend further.

Good thing the Reds know how to maul off a lineout close to the line Three tries, was it? Such exciting, exhilarating play (sarcasm). Tahs were more disappointing than I thought they'd be.

Maybe time for some reality checks next week with Reds facing the Canes and Brumbies facing the Chiefs.

Yes. I thought that one looked rather iffy at the time. I think it was Ravi, yes. I'd really love spider cam on these scrums.

Look at Bells arms/shoulders. He never had any intent other than to collapse the scrum.

Edit- actually I should clarify I only noticed that once. Didn’t pay enough attention to the others. But there was definitely one where Bell pulled Nonggorr straight forward and down.

I think Doleman probably got that one right, yes. Bell does look to pull it down, but I'm not sure he would have gone into that necessarily planning to collapse it. The way Nonagorr pancakes flags that he had his part to play, but his teams attacking scrum so I can see the conclusion drawn. Bell and Nonggorr will know who was playing silly buggers.

 

[KOB1987]

Having given this further thought whilst on the road today, I guess the answer is that the ref should be able to exercise discretion as to whether or not to issue a yellow card on top of the penalty try. In this instance it was a slight mis-timing of the tackle, it actually looked like jorgo was waiting until JP had the ball. Anyway, as I said it’s not about the result, Qld deserved to win. It’s about the perception of the game and the fairness of the contest. We want and need more casual viewers, especially when it’s on the main FTA channel.

 

[TSR]

show me prop who says he doesn’t cheat and I’ll show you a liar

Nonggorr is a straight up guy and very honest and was just doing his best - but that Bully boy Bell is just a cheat.

 

[TSR]

Having given this further thought whilst on the road today, I guess the answer is that the ref should be able to exercise discretion as to whether or not to issue a yellow card on top of the penalty try. In this instance it was a slight mis-timing of the tackle, it actually looked like jorgo was waiting until JP had the ball. Anyway, as I said it’s not about the result, Qld deserved to win. It’s about the perception of the game and the fairness of the contest. We want and need more casual viewers, especially when it’s on the main FTA channel.

KOB for the record I agree I’d like less TMO involvement (although I think try/no try decisions are the obvious ones to get them involved in). I don’t lack sympathy for that part of your stance. I just took a bit of exception to you having a crack at the refs when, IMO they got this 100% right under their framework. (and I’ll admit I took umbrage with the use of the word ‘dodgy’ - maybe more than I should have). I think allowing subjective discretion can be a danger in itself but I do think yellow was very harsh (but correct) in this case.

 

[dusk]

Despite the sarcasm here, It was actually an entertaining game. And importantly I don’t think a (reds) fan left the stadium who wasn’t happy with the product despite the weather. Which is really all we can hope for as rugby fans right about now if the game is to survive.

Even from a Waratahs perspective, bloody entertaining. While the Waratahs didn't play that great they weren't bad at all. Reds just played really well and in my opinion are going to be the strongest Australian side for super rugby this year.

 

[wamberal99]

Even from a Waratahs perspective, bloody entertaining. While the Waratahs didn't play that great they weren't bad at all. Reds just played really well and in my opinion are going to be the strongest Australian side for super rugby this year.

We can only hope.

 

[Adam84]

Brumbies fans have had to put up with misguided sarcastic comments for years about their only way of scoring was through the rolling maul. It is only fair to share the love when another side learns how to do it.

you do whatever what makes you feel happy .

As long as fans are leaving the game happy with the experience, then that’s the main thing for the rugby in this country at the moment.

 

[Marce]

Hale Street is made up mostly of Suncorp Members tickets that's why it's so empty. 60-70% of the seats you see on the broadcast cost several grand to purchase and if you're only getting half a dozen or so games, no-one buys stadium membership just to go to the Reds.

Interesting. Explain that to a casual who says that rugby is dead in Australia. So when you see the Hale Street packed for a Reds games most of the spectactors are Brondos supporters?

The broadcast side was packed

Castlemaine St?

 

[Adam84]

Interesting. Explain that to a casual who says that rugby is dead in Australia. So when you see the Hale Street packed for a Reds games most of the spectactors are Brondos supporters?

Castlemaine St?

No you buy a Broncos membership if you’re just a Broncos supporter, and you sit in the same seats as Reds members.

Those who buy a stadium membership are those who have interest across multiple codes, mainly league and union. Lots of corporate ownership of stadium membership as well, they just hand out tickets to staff clients. People will attend if the event it big enough as they’ve done with rugby in the past, but it’s just not exactly an attractive time at the moment.

 

[Ignoto]

Explain that to a casual who says that rugby is dead in Australia. So when you see the Hale Street packed for a Reds games most of the spectactors are Brondos supporters?

Suncorp was just as empty when the Broncos were horrible. Once they started winning they flocked back like the fickle fans Australians are.

The same thing happened before 2011, no-one turned up and as the Reds kept winning the more the stadium filled up.

The Gabba was empty after the lions historic wins in the early 2000's and is now full.