The Wallabies Thread

[eastman]

I don’t agree - Pocock May have more limited skill set, but he is so good at what he does he is our player most able to influence a result. He is the only current player (IMO) that could arguably have a place in a current world 15. Regardless of rule changes, top rugby teams still have pilferers - it is just not always their number 7.



And he has proven since coming back he is as good as ever. The bloke is our stand out best player.

Ask the Waratahs if they would prefer Pocock over Hooper? Or the Chiefs with Cane? Or 'Canes with Savea? Etc. Pocock is best suited for teams that play in a more defensive (arguably negative) manner like Ireland focusing on choke tackles and slowing down the ruck- his style isn't necessarily best suited for all teams.

 

[Braveheart81]

You tend to make some very dogmatic statements at times BH and present them as unarguable facts. Here's one in return. Even were it his worst year, Fardy would still have been huge step up on Hanigan and just might have been enticed to stay through to the RWC. I am as sure as you are not, that Fardy knew his future with Chieka before he committed to overseas.

I'm sure he could have been enticed to stay through to the RWC if the money had been right.

My position is that in 2016 when he was coming off contract he had comfortably his worst season for the Wallabies (the previous ones had been outstanding).

So, if you were RA would you have prioritised Fardy as a key player to re-sign for the next three years knowing that he would be 34 when the next RWC rolled around?

Hanigan hasn't got anything to do with this. He didn't have a top up contract and had never played a test when Fardy made his decision to head overseas.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Is there consensus as to who is raw/outright better out of Pococok or Hooper at the moment? Obviously selections aren't made in a vacuum (although sometimes we are left to wonder with recent selections) but in terms of just 'who is better' who is better out of Pocock and Hooper?

I get the impression most people are tending towards Pocock is that the case?

 

[Getwithme]

I couldn't definitively say which one is better because the roles they play are completely different

 

[Tomikin]

Is there consensus as to who is raw/outright better out of Pococok or Hooper at the moment? Obviously selections aren't made in a vacuum (although sometimes we are left to wonder with recent selections) but in terms of just 'who is better' who is better out of Pocock and Hooper?

I get the impression most people are tending towards Pocock is that the case?

Are you talking Hooper when he was a Brumbie or now his a stinking Tah.

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[dru]

Pocock is best suited for teams that play in a more defensive (arguably negative) manner like Ireland focusing on choke tackles and slowing down the ruck- his style isn't necessarily best suited for all teams.

And yet perhaps well suited to counteract Ireland.

 

[southsider]

Tui has been injured and suspended. His not starting for the Reds but we are going to play him out of position in the wallabies.. I'm not sure who's available at the moment or has a decent amount of game time at 6 - 8 to accompany the Pooper..

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Did you miss the part where I said long term?? As in, in the future

 

[Up the Guts]

When Naisarani is available and Valentini and Dempsey are healthy maybe then the case can be made for a traditional backrow until then Pocock with Hooper makes the most sense. Now we have guys in the tightfive, particularly in the front row, who are effective ball carriers I’m not sure that missing the big 8 or 6 is as damaging as it was a few seasons ago when players like Coleman, Tupou, Kepu, Sio etc. weren’t available.

 

[TSR]

Ask the Waratahs if they would prefer Pocock over Hooper? Or the Chiefs with Cane? Or 'Canes with Savea? Etc. Pocock is best suited for teams that play in a more defensive (arguably negative) manner like Ireland focusing on choke tackles and slowing down the ruck- his style isn't necessarily best suited for all teams.

That’s fine - I 100% agree that neither the Chiefs nor the Waratahs are going to actively chase Pocock, and, if asked they would openly promote their existing player. That doesn’t make either of them a better player than Pocock though.

Anyway, I think this has been done to death 100 times before. Hooper is a fine player - if you think he’s number 1 fair enough. You won’t be the only one.

 

[TSR]

On a different subject - where do people see Banks in the pecking order of wingers?

I am still a bit mystified as to why he got dropped earlier in the year. Despite the Brumbies woes there is something about him which makes me think he would make a good fist of an opportunity. He has size, speed, can bust a tackle. Has a good boot. I haven’t really noticed his defence - I think he was caught a few times on the weekend when he was on a hiding to nothing.

I would have Koriobete, Folau & DHP as a likely back 3 - although Tona could be a shot if they stick with TK at 13. Naiyaravoro is an option. He has done some really good things, but I have a feeling he will still get exposed at test level. Who else? Reece Hodge maybe. Speight is struggling, Perese can’t make the starting Reds is team. Cam Clarke is doing some good things too.

I dunno - what do people think.

 

[Froggy]

TSR, I think you can be pretty comfortable DHP and Folau will be 14 & 15, however 11 is a problem. Two of our top prospects from last year, Koriobete and Speight, have been in dismal form, and Hodge only a little better. I would like to see Nayarovoro there, but only as 23, not starting. I think Rona and Naivalu are the most likely candidates. I am a big Perese fan, and Clarke has been very reliable and has serious pace, but I think it may be a tad early for either of them.

 

[Up the Guts]

Perese and Petaia will be good long term. Koroibete starts at 11 for me based on incumbency and we’ll see if he can get back to his best running off Beale and Folau. I’d like to see Taqele in the 23 given he’s been the most dangerous winger in Super Rugby alongside Ben Lam but can see arguments against seeing he is signed overseas. DHP and Folau locks at 14 and 15 respectively.

The Brumbies backline has really worked against Banks. If Banks has been sitting outside Foley, Beale, and Rona he’d like have a bunch of tries next to his name.

 

[TSR]

Agree with all of that UTGs. I wonder if Cheika will be tempted to give Banks a shot outside a stronger back line and see how he goes.

 

[Tomikin]

On a different subject - where do people see Banks in the pecking order of wingers?

I am still a bit mystified as to why he got dropped earlier in the year. Despite the Brumbies woes there is something about him which makes me think he would make a good fist of an opportunity. He has size, speed, can bust a tackle. Has a good boot. I haven’t really noticed his defence - I think he was caught a few times on the weekend when he was on a hiding to nothing.

I would have Koriobete, Folau & DHP as a likely back 3 - although Tona could be a shot if they stick with TK at 13. Naiyaravoro is an option. He has done some really good things, but I have a feeling he will still get exposed at test level. Who else? Reece Hodge maybe. Speight is struggling, Perese can’t make the starting Reds is team. Cam Clarke is doing some good things too.

I dunno - what do people think.

Banks has some serious pace, He can kick, I'd have him in the team in front of any of the other Brumbies back 3s

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[Zero_Cool]

Perese and Petaia will be good long term.

First don't forget Daugunu (eligibility), but one of those three Queensland back three should really move to fullback. Both Daugunu and Perese are probably too skilled to be left on the wing permanently.

 

[Up the Guts]

Agree with all of that UTGs. I wonder if Cheika will be tempted to give Banks a shot outside a stronger back line and see how he goes.

I wouldn’t be against a bit of experimentation on the wing given that there are a number of candidates all of similar ability. Perese was taken on the EOYT last year over Banks so I’ll be interested to see what Cheika does now that Perese has been coming off the bench for the Reds and whether he gets another gig in the squad.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'd say Banks would be the ideal back up winger for DHP. Same style of player with similar skill set. Would retain a proper fullback in the side if DHP goes down with injury.

On the other hand, if DHP and Folau were to swap spots, playing Banks on the other wing woulg give us the NZ model of two fullbacks in the back three and would see Izzy play in his most suited position, but not his most favoured of course.

 

[eastman]

I'd say Banks would be the ideal back up winger for DHP. Same style of player with similar skill set. Would retain a proper fullback in the side if DHP goes down with injury.



On the other hand, if DHP and Folau were to swap spots, playing Banks on the other wing woulg give us the NZ model of two fullbacks in the back three and would see Izzy play in his most suited position, but not his most favoured of course.

Folau has an unmatched ability to beat defenders to set up his outside men as opposed to being a pure finisher- doesn't this make him suited to fullback (in attack at least)?

 

[Zero_Cool]

I wouldn’t be against a bit of experimentation on the wing given that there are a number of candidates all of similar ability. Perese was taken on the EOYT last year over Banks so I’ll be interested to see what Cheika does now that Perese has been coming off the bench for the Reds and whether he gets another gig in the squad.

Regarding Perese being benched, I'm not sure we can actually read too much into that given some of the other players who have been benched by Thorn. It's quite clear Thorn has his own criteria for selection, Quade, Karmichael, Tuttle at times all surprisingly not in the 23. Then consider starting Lance, Lucas and Toua for most of the season while ignoring Paia'aua, Stewart and Sorovi and dumping Tuttle. I'm not trying to say it's right or wrong, just that Thorn is clearly marching to his own drum when it comes to selection -- mind you the Reds are accounting for themselves as well as can should be expected against some of the best teams in the comp.

I'd say Banks would be the ideal back up winger for DHP. Same style of player with similar skill set. Would retain a proper fullback in the side if DHP goes down with injury.

On the other hand, if DHP and Folau were to swap spots, playing Banks on the other wing woulg give us the NZ model of two fullbacks in the back three and would see Izzy play in his most suited position, but not his most favoured of course.

IMO despite playing in fullback Folau has never actually been a fullback, he's always just looked like a really talented winger put in fullback. His skill set screams winger. Limited kicking ability and only to one side, poor tactical play, his ability under the high ball -- I mean he spends the majority of his time in defence on the wing.

Not sure where Banks would fit into that equation though -- I think the truth is we have a glut of very good wingers at the moment. If only there were 'trades' in international Rugby. haha

 

[Braveheart81]

On attack Folau's ability to chime into the backline and create something in attack is unrivalled.

I think people get hung up on the fact that he isn't a great kicker and think he is out of position. He does a lot of things that you want out of a fullback incredibly well.

His ability to eat up metres and beat defenders is better than anyone else we have. I think you definitely want him getting his hands on the ball more, not less which again suits being at fullback.

I'm not sure the Wallabies are a better team with an inferior attacking player at fullback who kicks better and Folau on the wing.