The Wallabies Thread

[Derpus]

I've got a ton of problems with the history of Cheika's selections, but Beale at 10 isn't one of them, nor is it confined to him:
- John Connolly explained that he didn't bring Beale to the 2007 World Cup because he had enough depth at 10.
- Robbie Deans started Beale at 10 in seven test matches in 2012, despite having Berrick Barnes, Quade Cooper, or Mike Harris available.
- Ewen McKenzie started Beale at 10 and To'omua at 12 in both games against NZ in the 2014 Rugby Championship, and started Beale at 10 in the 2008 Super 14 Final.
- Chris Hickey had Beale as his first-choice 10 in 2009.
- Damien Hill had Beale as his first-choice 10 in 2012.
- Daryl Gibson started Beale at 10 for his first three games as Waratahs coach.
- Dai Young preferred to move Beale to 10 and bring on a 12, than bring on a 10.

I think we've worked out that Beale is at his best at 12, but he is also a good option at 10.

He's an emergency option at best.

All things considered, I'd rather have Cooper as backup (and i'm not really a fan). That's assuming he is fit, in some relatively decent form and playing for a Super side.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Oh, of course, I'd prefer Cooper, To'omua, or Lealiifano, if for no other reason than they're a comparable talent with over five seasons of experience as a first-choice 10, not being shuffled to fullback or as wing cover from the bench or what-not. But you can only bring 23 players to the game, and Beale's ability at 10 makes him a better 12 and gives us some flexibility with choosing that inside back reserve.

 

[RebelYell]

Whatever happened to the idea of Hodgey being backup 10? Or Maddocks?

I didn't necessarily love either idea, but I love even less the shortsightedness that is throwing them up as alternatives and then walking away from the idea within twelve months despite lack of exploration...

 

[Derpus]

Whatever happened to the idea of Hodgey being backup 10? Or Maddocks?

I didn't necessarily love either idea, but I love even less the shortsightedness that is throwing them up as alternatives and then walking away from the idea within twelve months despite lack of exploration.

He's kind of shit at it.

 

[RebelYell]

He's kind of shit at it.

Much worse than Kurtley was in his games at 10? At least as first receiver the distance of his kicking can be directly beneficial, though his passing game still needs work.

I guess my point was, why are we continually looking at short-term solutions to such a critical jersey?

 

[kiap]

I guess my point was, why are we continually looking at short-term solutions to such a critical jersey?

Because … Cheika.

 

[Derpus]

Because … Cheika.

Because Cheika? please. Because there are no long term solutions available.

Stewart has played okay at 10 in Super and NRC but hardly knocking the door down as a test quality 10. Deegan has also been okay without really being outstanding, but doesn't play for a Super side.

Quade is old, form is patchy and hasn't been playing for a Super side. Leali'ifano has said he's not ready/may never be ready to play test rugby again.

Beale is a stop gap/emergency. Hodge can't pass.

That leaves To'omua, and even he is in his late 20s.

Edit: and Maddocks, though I've never seen him play 10.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I guess my point was, why are we continually looking at short-term solutions to such a critical jersey?

Because the Australian junior rugby pathway hasn't produced a genuinely world class long term senior 10 since Lynagh in the mid-80s?

 

[Derpus]

Because the Australian junior rugby pathway hasn't produced a genuinely world class long term senior 10 since Lynagh in the mid-80s?

That's rough on Larkham.

 

[Strewthcobber]

That's rough on Larkham.

NOt a 10 produced by the Juniors!

 

[kiap]

That leaves To'omua, and even he is in his late 20s.

His playing career will last longer than Cheika's coaching career.

To'omua should have been given a shot in South Africa - and then a couple more games before the RWC. The likelihood is he will have none. Well, not in the next nine months.

So it's basically

Foley
…
erm, ah, … erm …
…
Beale
Hodge
Quade (fun to be had if he makes the World Cup)
…
some kid

 

[Derpus]

Yeah, essentially. But blaming Cheika for decades of pathway neglect is a long bow.

 

[kiap]

Yeah, essentially. But blaming Cheika for decades of pathway neglect is a long bow.

True enough. My beef isn't really about Cheika's lack of a star-in-the-making as the next flyhalf.

A serviceable backup ten who can tackle, kick and pass to the players outside him would be good at the moment, with the occasional running game a bonus.

Even for Beale, who I think is not the answer, time in the ten shirt wasn't sufficiently tried out until the last few weeks when the question has been there for years. For To'omua, who I think does provide that serviceable option, time is now running short to get some time in the role.

He's not a superstar but, to be fair, neither is Foley. Quade is… well, Quade, and he might have to be the "break glass in emergency" gamble soon.

 

[Derpus]

True enough. My beef isn't really about Cheika's lack of a star-in-the-making as the next flyhalf.

A serviceable backup ten who can tackle, kick and pass to the players outside him would be good at the moment, with the occasional running game a bonus.

Even for Beale, who I think is not the answer, time in the ten shirt wasn't sufficiently tried out until the last few weeks when the question has been there for years. For To'omua, who I think does provide that serviceable option, time is now running short to get some time in the role.

He's not a superstar but, to be fair, neither is Foley. Quade is… well, Quade, and he might have to be the "break glass in emergency" gamble soon.

If Quade goes to the rebels and performs okay he'll be the backup 10, which is fine. He has to bring better form to Super than he did in his last season for the Reds though. He was absolutely useless.

I think To'omua, whilst clearly a different player, would be about on par with Beale as a back-up 10. He's clearly better suited to 12.

 

[kiap]

If Quade goes to the rebels and performs okay he'll be the backup 10, which is fine. He has to bring better form to Super than he did in his last season for the Reds though. He was absolutely useless.

There's the rub.

I think To'omua, whilst clearly a different player, would be about on par with Beale as a back-up 10.

I think he's better than Beale as a 10.

We won't likely see him given a chance though.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Isn't his answer To'omua will be 10 if needed? Tried Quade, tried Kurtley, Lilo got sick, and don't blame me for your inadequate development of young 10s RA. The Wallabies is not the place to be training up young 10s.

Plenty of opportunity for Cheika to have tried To'omua at 10 in TRC, but he didn't. And the word is that Cheika is unlikely to play To'omua on the EOYT. Not much potential there for him to be the backup No 10 in the short term. Cheika again last night put Beale's name forward when asked about the need to have a backup for Foley. Is he the only person left in the country who thinks Beale is a suitable option at 10?

 

[Joe Blow]

Quade to light up the rebels backline like no one has previously giving Cheika no other option but to take him.
I was a big fan before but he never matured. He might do so now as a player. There is no doubting his skill.

Here’s hoping.

 

[barbarian]

With the squad of players the Rebels have assembled, he's got no excuse not to succeed.

He'll have Genia at 9, To'omua at 12, Hodge at 13, Maddocks and Koro on the wings and DHP at 15. Not to mention guys like Coleman, Naisirani, Ainsley, Matt Philip, Luke Jones in the pack.

 

[Derpus]

With the squad of players the Rebels have assembled, he's got no excuse not to succeed.

He'll have Genia at 9, To'omua at 12, Hodge at 13, Maddocks and Koro on the wings and DHP at 15. Not to mention guys like Coleman, Naisirani, Ainsley, Matt Philip, Luke Jones in the pack.

Seen better teams perform worse though. Like the Tahs, every year before 2014. Is Luke Jones locked in?

 

[Wilson]

With the squad of players the Rebels have assembled, he's got no excuse not to succeed.

He'll have Genia at 9, To'omua at 12, Hodge at 13, Maddocks and Koro on the wings and DHP at 15. Not to mention guys like Coleman, Naisirani, Ainsley, Matt Philip, Luke Jones in the pack.

9 Genia 10 Quade 12 To'omua is about as good as Quade has looked in the past, and if he can get Korobiete running Digby-like lines it should translate well for the wallabies. Real pity about that scrum though, they haven't really added anything and it was terrible this year. Rebels are going to have to nail their lineouts to give him something to attack off of.