Wallabies 2019 Thread

[Brumby Runner]

This is such a catch 22.

Should RA and the Wallabies coach try and lure good players who are going to be right around the selection frame back to Australia so they are a chance of playing for the Wallabies or going to a RWC or should they not because it's guaranteed some of those players won't ultimately get picked?

To be a competitive international team we have to have good players missing out and hard luck stories. If no one deserving misses out then our squad isn't going to be strong enough. How much test game time are returning players entitled to in a 4 match stretch to push their case? We can't compromise our preparation for the RWC just so fans can't think that someone didn't get enough minutes to prove they shouldn't have been selected.

It's a two way street. Players come back because they want a shot at going to the RWC. It's the pinnacle of the sport and players will make financial sacrifices to try and achieve that. I don't think any of them come back with the expectation that all they have to do is sign a contract and they are in.

Skelton would have been a pretty wild selection if he was picked at the 11th hour after signing a contract right on the deadline. I don't think anyone saying he's nowhere near good enough to be in our top 4 locks has been watching him play in the last season. He is a different player to the one that left in 2016.

Maybe the rule should be (again) that returning players have to turn out in the whole or bulk of the Super Rugby season leading up to the RWC to be considered. If such a restriction was common knowledge, players could take account of their ambitions or lack thereof when signing the high finance overseas contracts.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Tahs 14,15 & 18, so the ponies win 16,17 & 19

so the premise stands, there is a lag and the success in 14 & 15 led to a load of Tahs as Wobs being selected and winning meant a Tahs coach getting promoted as well.

And that is now changing as the ponies are now in ascendancy and they will get more first looks.

The big challenge is the cattle turnover and the likelihood that most of our sides could be quite shit next season as we are losing 3 starting 10s with a shitload of experience, and the gamebreakers of four sides will be gone as well (Kerevi, Genua, Folau & Pocock)

The only relatively stable side is the Reds IMHO

Brumbies also in 2012 and 2013 in the lead up period to the changing of the coaching set up in 2015. Interestingly, while the Tahs finished on top in 2014, the Brumbies again made the finals. The Brumbies actually finished in the finals on more occasions than the Tahs. On balance, I think claiming the Tahs were dominant throughout that period is skating on extremely thin ice FP.

Nevertheless, your contention that the Brumbies are now dominating selections in the Wallabies is also false or at least misleading. This RWC squad contains 8 Brumbies and 8 Tahs. As I said to KOB, I think you and he have a very hard case to prove there has been and is no prejudice at work in Wallaby selections over the period Cheika has been in charge.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Jordan Petaia heading home early from Wallabies' Noumea camp with a hamstring injury. He won't play against Samoa but is still expected to be fit for World Cup. Koroibete has linked up with the squad after staying in Melbourne for family reasons.

Massive urghhh!

Out of interest are people seeing the embedded tweets? They aren't appearing on my screen.

At least it's not a calf muscle. I'm hanging out for the news of the next player(s) to suffer a calf strain.

 

[Tomikin]

Yeah, so the tweets aren't embedding for anyone. I copied the text from the tweet too so it could be seen. If it was working properly you'd see both.

Nope not working bro

 

[Braveheart81]

Maybe the rule should be (again) that returning players have to turn out in the whole or bulk of the Super Rugby season leading up to the RWC to be considered. If such a restriction was common knowledge, players could take account of their ambitions or lack thereof when signing the high finance overseas contracts.

The reality is that it will almost always depend on how good you are and what the team's needs are.

When they're arbitrary rules you're creating you're going to try and make them so they achieve the best balance of outcomes.

I don't think anyone is owed test match selection or guaranteed minutes or RWC selection just because the coach enticed them to come back to the country. Clearly no guarantees are provided.

 

[Tomikin]

Cheika has missed an opportunity to blood an express winger in the Rugby Championship. With Petaia only ever a long shot, and Banks dropped, we're now an injury to Koroibete away from having no pace at all in the back three. Pulu would've been a bold choice but it's too late now. If Petaia is out, Banks comes in and we hope for the best.

To be honest there's a few guys around Sefa, Pulu, Speight, Rona who are good enough to come straight in.. if anything all should be there in front of Petaia..

We can always go ACC 11 - DHP 15 - Hodge 14 for the slowest back 3 in world cup history, but it will be Beale and MK who will be there so we are talking about the 2nd fullback, and to be fair Hodge is front runner even with Petaia available.

 

[Tomikin]

The reality is that it will almost always depend on how good you are and what the team's needs are.

When they're arbitrary rules you're creating you're going to try and make them so they achieve the best balance of outcomes.

I don't think anyone is owed test match selection or guaranteed minutes or RWC selection just because the coach enticed them to come back to the country. Clearly no guarantees are provided.

And Agreeing with you, lets be clear.. Gits coming back last world cup was a master stroke, as much as people bitched at the time, he was one of our best players till he was injured in the final. This time we have pulled back White, who is probably top Aussie 9, above Genia who would be up there with the best in the world.

The rule is there for the cream of the crop, and to either get them into the test team Gits Mitchell TPN or entice the best players back to oz, (White, To'omua, Jones, Samu, Douglas, Vickerman) Im sure there's others Skelton could be next, but the aim is to get as many of the best players for Australia playing in Australia.

 

[Adam84]

Maybe the rule should be (again) that returning players have to turn out in the whole or bulk of the Super Rugby season leading up to the RWC to be considered. If such a restriction was common knowledge, players could take account of their ambitions or lack thereof when signing the high finance overseas contracts.

I’m happy with the current situation, it offsets the departure of local players post-RWC..

 

[Bobby Sands]

BH I see it as words not as a tweet..hope that makes sense..

Petaia shouldn't be in the team, his young, hasn't played all year and is injury prone. Pick Banks

Nope.

I've said it all along.

Petaia is so far ahead of these people, that he would would walk into this side with no rugby.

The reports says its a tweak, they will wrap him in cotton twine.

I think Banks is very unlucky, and should be selected ahead of KB (Kurtley Beale) at 15, but he wont be selected over a 13/14/15 as its just not like for like. Petaia will be a first XV winger at the world cup or close enough to it.

 

[KOB1987]

Brumbies also in 2012 and 2013 in the lead up period to the changing of the coaching set up in 2015. Interestingly, while the Tahs finished on top in 2014, the Brumbies again made the finals. The Brumbies actually finished in the finals on more occasions than the Tahs. On balance, I think claiming the Tahs were dominant throughout that period is skating on extremely thin ice FP.

Nevertheless, your contention that the Brumbies are now dominating selections in the Wallabies is also false or at least misleading. This RWC squad contains 8 Brumbies and 8 Tahs. As I said to KOB, I think you and he have a very hard case to prove there has been and is no prejudice at work in Wallaby selections over the period Cheika has been in charge.

My comments were solely in regard to the Waratahs of 2014 and to a lesser extent 2015 being clearly dominant over all other franchises and that led to them deservedly having a greater representation of players in the 2015 RWC squad. I didn't make any mention of 2012, 2013, 2016, 2017, 2018 or 2019.

BTW I am aware that you have never liked Simmons even when he was at the Reds, but the point was he still appears in your oft used list of players that you cite when you claim Tahs/Cheika bias.

 

[Brumbieman]

Brumbies also in 2012 and 2013 in the lead up period to the changing of the coaching set up in 2015. Interestingly, while the Tahs finished on top in 2014, the Brumbies again made the finals. The Brumbies actually finished in the finals on more occasions than the Tahs. On balance, I think claiming the Tahs were dominant throughout that period is skating on extremely thin ice FP.

Nevertheless, your contention that the Brumbies are now dominating selections in the Wallabies is also false or at least misleading. This RWC squad contains 8 Brumbies and 8 Tahs. As I said to KOB, I think you and he have a very hard case to prove there has been and is no prejudice at work in Wallaby selections over the period Cheika has been in charge.

Mate who cares.

We all want a good balanced squad picked on form/quality and Banks aside we've pretty much got it. Even the starting 15 is pretty much spot on with only 1-2 positions being debated about.

The extra selectors are a legit good move by RA.

 

[Brumbieman]

Just to be pedantic....

The Brumbies were also runners up in 13, and semi finalists in 14 and 15 - they've only failed to make the finals twice (12, 18) over the last two World Cup cycles and finished above the Tahs 5/8 of those years (2012 - 2019).

And beat The Lions, without the only 3-4 Wallabies we had in the squad.

JW for HC/organisational structure Dictator - Don't parrot old shit about boring rugby - if we win the Bledisloe back by driving the NZ pack back over their own tryline or penalty try, you'll all lose your shit. I'll take wining rugby over the occasional burst of quality rugby anyday.
He rebuilt the Brumbies (team AND BTC set up) with a squad of virtual nobodies inside of a year and came within yard or two of a 3rd title in his second season in charge. Despite appearances they scored more tries than all other Aussie sides both years, then lost their way and stuck to the maul until McKeller took charge.

Rennie for attack coach, long term succession plan. Apparently very short odds for next year already. Rennie's good, but hasn't coached international rugby yet. Give him a few years under JW as his apprenticeship in test footy or he might crash and burn in the clusterfuck of Australian rugby politics.

Benton - S&C, Gandalf - forwards/breakdown, Byrne - skills, AND FOR FUCK SAKE A TOP NOTCH SPORT PSYCHOLOGIST.

Put them in charge of this batch of freaks coming through over the next 4 year cycle, with the front row we've got locked in.....

Folau's salary can cover the shrink and JW, Gandalf would only need a top up on his Brumbies paycheck, and the rest are already part of the current set up.

Oh, and make them watch the second halves of both the latest Bledisloe in Perth and the BA game against Argentina last year before each game so they remember that's how rugby is played.

Clockwork Orange Ludoviko style.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Sad for Petaia - hope this is not a recurring injury - but the comment why pick him because he is young sounds a bit silly - young / old - your good enough - your good enough....

 

[Bobby Sands]

And beat The Lions, without the only 3-4 Wallabies we had in the squad.

JW for HC/organisational structure Dictator - Don't parrot old shit about boring rugby - if we win the Bledisloe back by driving the NZ pack back over their own tryline or penalty try, you'll all lose your shit. I'll take wining rugby over the occasional burst of quality rugby anyday.
He rebuilt the Brumbies (team AND BTC set up) with a squad of virtual nobodies inside of a year and came within yard or two of a 3rd title in his second season in charge. Despite appearances they scored more tries than all other Aussie sides both years, then lost their way and stuck to the maul until McKeller took charge.

Rennie for attack coach, long term succession plan. Apparently very short odds for next year already. Rennie's good, but hasn't coached international rugby yet. Give him a few years under JW as his apprenticeship in test footy or he might crash and burn in the clusterfuck of Australian rugby politics.

Benton - S&C, Gandalf - forwards/breakdown, Byrne - skills, AND FOR FUCK SAKE A TOP NOTCH SPORT PSYCHOLOGIST.

Put them in charge of this batch of freaks coming through over the next 4 year cycle, with the front row we've got locked in...

Folau's salary can cover the shrink and JW, Gandalf would only need a top up on his Brumbies paycheck, and the rest are already part of the current set up.

Oh, and make them watch the second halves of both the latest Bledisloe in Perth and the BA game against Argentina last year before each game so they remember that's how rugby is played.

Clockwork Orange Ludoviko style.

Add Tatsy Taylor defensive coach.

 

[Tomikin]

Nope.

I've said it all along.

Petaia is so far ahead of these people, that he would would walk into this side with no rugby.

The reports says its a tweak, they will wrap him in cotton twine.

I think Banks is very unlucky, and should be selected ahead of KB (Kurtley Beale) at 15, but he wont be selected over a 13/14/15 as its just not like for like. Petaia will be a first XV winger at the world cup or close enough to it.

His not getting picked at 13 during the world cup, his been selected as a wing, Kevri/JOC (James O'Connor)/TK are all in front of him at 13 and Beale / DHP / Banks are better fullbacks, wing might be a good spot for him, but that's if he gets a game in front of Hodge/DHP (which I think he should but seems unlikely).

 

[Slim 293]

Nope.

I've said it all along.

Petaia is so far ahead of these people, that he would would walk into this side with no rugby.

Petaia is pretty good........ but not that good, yet.

 

[fatprop]

His not getting picked at 13 during the world cup, his been selected as a wing, Kevri/JOC (James O'Connor)/TK are all in front of him at 13 and Beale / DHP / Banks are better fullbacks, wing might be a good spot for him, but that's if he gets a game in front of Hodge/DHP (which I think he should but seems unlikely).

Petaia has immense potential and has been in and about the squads doing his apprenticeship for a while now but is he goes down we need another proper winger, not another 13 or 15 or utility

I like Banks's potential but we have a load of cover for a 14/15 in the squad already but none for Koro

 

[Braveheart81]

Banks has not really been considered a winger from what I've heard. If Petaia was withdrawn from the RWC squad I'd expect Maddocks to get called up.*

* not suggesting that is what I'd personally do.

 

[Tomikin]

Petaia has immense potential and has been in and about the squads doing his apprenticeship for a while now but is he goes down we need another proper winger, not another 13 or 15 or utility

I like Banks's potential but we have a load of cover for a 14/15 in the squad already but none for Koro

Happy for a strike winger Pulu/Speight be my picks but Sefa as well.

 

[Tomikin]

Banks has not really been considered a winger from what I've heard. If Petaia was withdrawn from the RWC squad I'd expect Maddocks to get called up.*

* not suggesting that is what I'd personally do.

oh god, no.. I forgot about Maddocks