Wallabies 31 Man Squad

[Athilnaur]

I agree McCabe has a limited passing game. And I don't recall him stepping anyone, though I have seen him change direction and put on speed. His passing game and offload game has improved, as have the lines he offers but to be fair that is from a low base.

Hard to judge on 201 mins what improvements he has brought to his game, but in the time he has had he has managed 80 metres per 80 played and almost invariably makes the gainline. That is a big plus. He also brings a good support game, regularly being close by for cleanouts. And of course his D is excellent. I personally think White has made a mistake not playing him at 13 with Kuridrani having limited impact but that is 20-20 hindsight on my part.

All of these things will make him desirable to Deans. I see little between him and Horne and doubt it would make any difference which of them was played save a bit more confidence McCabe will shut down anyone running his channel.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I also watched a game where Pat McCabe tackled himself into a hospital ward, and stopped countless Springbok forays by belting them all night, and made almost as large a contribution to the team's victory as Pocock did.


Funnily enough, same game. He's much, much better than people give him credit for.

Yeah there was just as much chat saying McCabe single handedly won us that game. The truth is neither did. They were part of a team effort where they made the largest contributions. I didn't see either scoring tries or kicking goals so I'd say their contribution was to in fact shutting down SA. That's helpful if we are going for a nil all draw. I just tend to believe that when we are talking about a national representitive team, you need to be able to offer more.

 

[I like to watch]

I hear what you are saying but there are probably a dozen guys ,playing club or bush Rugby around Australia,90kgish,if told you are going from the wing/fullback from the Orange Emus to inside centre for the Wallabies, to tackle your arse off and run really really hard and get belted until you bust your neck and shoulder would do it for the chance to wear the Green and yellow and do just as well.
I would have done so myself but could never crack 90kgs myself no matter how many banana smoothies I drank and weights I lifted .Now 45 I have realised the secret is not moving and have cracked the 90 and am waiting for Dingos call.
The thing is you cannot criticise his heart or commitment but he has no skills, stifles the backline and if you want a big hard man there put a BIG man there eg the Badger or anyone tbh to take on Jamie Roberts(who has been poor in our 8 of last 9 wins against Wales.not exact sure of stats but whatever)
Fuck them and pick OUR side to play OUR game. Unfortunately a coach on 1m a year does no want to lose and will not think like that(and would you?)
Ok back to the drink, lived in London for many years but coming home for the Lions,VERY EXCITED.Nothing personal Brumbieman , have always enjoyed your posts here and on PR, I am an old ACT boy myself(the Mighty Whites a long time ago) Will have another drink..

Serious?
Then why don't they just pick props or flankers in the 12 jumper?
I can't think of a time when another 12 has got over the top of him.
He reads the game very well,his timing and his running lines are exceptional.
He is a very solid Test player.
Want to pick an Kiwi style "second five" inside centre?
That's OK provided you are confident they can shut down the huge 12 in the Lions jumper.

 

[BDA]

With the loss of Timani, Higgers and TPN we desperately need to add some aggression to our squad. This MUST open the door for MMM. Provided he gets through the Tahs game unscathed, he must be chosen.

Don't fuck this up Dingo.

 

[gold heart]

Well said BDA ...... MMM is one of the few Finegans that we have left....I think it should be a straight swap with Macalman - not sure what the rules are with releasing uninjured players from the squad though. If MMM gets in I hope that he is on the pine for the 1st test and then steps up to 4 or 6 in the second. This all based on him playing a good game against the tahs this weekend.

With all our injuries I still think we are going to have a good solid mob of pigs..... its the backs that worry me a bit more.

 

[Richo]

The McCabe/Pocock point has absolutely nothing to do with whether McCabe is a good player or not and everything to do with the fact that Pocock has been one of the best two players in his position in the world for a number of years now.

 

[USARugger]

Richo

Thank you.

Don't forget though, he's never shit a rainbow so we have to classify him as "limited".

If Hooper was 2 inches taller 6/7 would select themselves. I'd still like to see him tried there, it is much closer to his skill set than 7 is.

 

[Cosmo Jones]

Patty McCabe has one thing over the other hairstyles - gigantic fucking balls. Never EVER think for a moment that can be trained. Fancy moves and "talent" are all well and good, but you need a bloke out there who will make an absolute shunt out of himself the whole game on attack and defence, and Pat's the man for that.

Is he the best option available? Maybe not with Horne adding a few strings to his bow recently.

Pocock v Hooper v Gill - the facts

1) Pocock is stronger at the breakdown, but worst with the ball
2) Hooper is best with the ball, but not as quick or strong at the breakdown
3) Gill is quicker at the breakdown, and has the best hands

You're welcome.

Pocock is not slower that gill at the breakdown.

 

[Braveheart81]

I love it how a player is out injured for a few months and they go from being close to our best player in just about every game to being a plodder who will struggle to get back in the team.

Short memories.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Pocock is not slower that gill at the breakdown.

settled, then

 

[USARugger]

settled, then

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=g4SrZYjsYr8&desktop_uri=/watch?v=g4SrZYjsYr8

So slow over the ball I can hardly believe it.

This historical envisionment of Pococks play is just flat out wrong and in no way based in reality.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Pocock has been one of the best two players in his position in the world for a number of years now.

In Australia.

In Wales replace Pocock with Warbuton. In SA replace Pocock with Brussow. In Ireland replace Pocock with SOB. In England replace Pocock with... Actually I'm certain the English would agree. They constantly have 6's playing their just because they are captain (Robshaw & Moody) and haven't had a quality 7 since Neil Back.

Before Pocock was injured last season we were all discussing his lack of impact. Why? Because teams knew what to expect from him and were targetting him, holding him down at the rucks rucks, etc. and he had not developed other areas of his game to compensate.

People say he's injured and we forget about him? I think a lot of people are looking back through rose coloured glasses. Since the SA Quarter Final he hasn't been able to make the same impact when he has been playing.

Hooper came on the scene coming 2nd (Could be wrong with that) for pilfers in Super Rugby. That leads me to believe he is adequate at the breakdown. From here is has developed an incredible running game. If he can lift his tackle completion rate (Which is not that low... funnily enough you will have a decent number of missed tackles when you also make the most tackles even if you are tackling at 90+%) he will be superior player to Pocock.

Sure right now (well not right now, he's injured), start of 2013 anyway, Pocock is the better openside flanker. However I believe the gulf between the two is much less than Pocock was behind Smith when Deans was happy to kick Smith to the kerb. The rate Hooper is developing it likely won't be long before he eclipses Pocock.

 

[USARugger]

Train Without a Station

If you actually think any of those flankers are on the same level as Pocock you have completely fucking lost the plot mate. You named one very good open side, one potentially good open side who has shown flashes and two makeshift open sides who get embarrassed by the latter when he is on song. Pocock is on an entirely different level than these players and you would be hard pressed to find a professional analyst anywhere on Earth who agrees with your perspective.

Seriously, even Jake White who has coached both Hooper and Pocock openly rates Pocock as one of the best players in the entire world.

 

[Slim 293]

In Australia.

In Wales replace Pocock with Warbuton. In SA replace Pocock with Brussow. In Ireland replace Pocock with SOB. In England replace Pocock with. Actually I'm certain the English would agree. They constantly have 6's playing their just because they are captain (Robshaw & Moody) and haven't had a quality 7 since Neil Back.

Before Pocock was injured last season we were all discussing his lack of impact. Why? Because teams knew what to expect from him and were targetting him, holding him down at the rucks rucks, etc. and he had not developed other areas of his game to compensate.

People say he's injured and we forget about him? I think a lot of people are looking back through rose coloured glasses. Since the SA Quarter Final he hasn't been able to make the same impact when he has been playing.

Hooper came on the scene coming 2nd (Could be wrong with that) for pilfers in Super Rugby. That leads me to believe he is adequate at the breakdown. From here is has developed an incredible running game. If he can lift his tackle completion rate (Which is not that low. funnily enough you will have a decent number of missed tackles when you also make the most tackles even if you are tackling at 90+%) he will be superior player to Pocock.

Sure right now (well not right now, he's injured), start of 2013 anyway, Pocock is the better openside flanker. However I believe the gulf between the two is much less than Pocock was behind Smith when Deans was happy to kick Smith to the kerb. The rate Hooper is developing it likely won't be long before he eclipses Pocock.

I don't think anyone has suggested that those 3 players you mentioned are better than Pocock..........

And since that SA QF Pocock destroyed the Welsh in the 3 test series last year before injury...........

A lot of the criticisms raised about him didn't come into fruition until after he was injured last year........... and much of that came from Hooper's rise and the focus on his running game.........

 

[lewisr]

Hooper came on the scene coming 2nd (Could be wrong with that) for pilfers in Super Rugby. That leads me to believe he is adequate at the breakdown. From here is has developed an incredible running game. If he can lift his tackle completion rate (Which is not that low. funnily enough you will have a decent number of missed tackles when you also make the most tackles even if you are tackling at 90+%) he will be superior player to Pocock.

.

Hooper has made 154 which is the 10th best in the competition. Considering everything else he does, that is absolutely brilliant. It also explains his high missed tackle rate - he's just a mongrel who tries to make as many as possible and that means he misses a few every now and then.

If we look on the bright side of all of this, Australia seem to have an endless amount of absolutely world class flankers. Hooper, Gill, Smith and Pocock would all be at the forefront of any other national team's open side position so I think we should take a step back and thank the rugby gods for giving us so many different options. Each of these blokes work their arses off and put it this way, Hooper and Gill might not be as experience or as good, but they will blow the northern hemisphere lads off the park. And that's all that matters.

 

[Train Without a Station]

[Seriously, even Jake White who has coached both Hooper and Pocock openly rates Pocock as one of the best players in the entire world.

Coach talks up his big name off-season recruit... Massive shock. If Pocock re-signed with the Force I dare say White would be saying Hooper is our best openside here in Australia. Regardless if it was 100% true.

What I said was that if you went to Ireland, Wales and SA they would say McCaw and those players are in the top 2, much like everybody here does with Pocock. Maybe in England where they haven't had a quality openside for a while they would agree.

For all the off-season talk about Pocock developing his running game and linking game, I didn't really see too much of it before he got injured. Maybe he will make me eat my words in 2014, but I just think if he hasn't developed and rounded his game much in the first half of his career, or at least not as much as he has done to his muscles, he probably won't a great deal in the next half. He hit the ground running extremely well like a seasoned veteran at a very young age, but I don't see him hitting the same heights as some other historically slower starters have.

 

[USARugger]

No, they wouldn't. The rest of the world thinks just as highly of Pocock. He scares the shit out of NH coaches. What planet do you live on?

To say Jake White was merely talking up a new signee is another colossal load of bullshit. We are talking about the Jake White who used to be notorious for NEVER PLAYING FETCHERS. The Jake White who is also notorious for not mincing words.

And I quote, “David, as we know, is one of the best players in the world and people would argue that he is the best by far as an openside flanker,” White said.

“He’s probably the best signing the Brumbies have had in the history of the club.”

 

[BDA]

For all the off-season talk about Pocock developing his running game and linking game, I didn't really see too much of it before he got injured. Maybe he will make me eat my words in 2014, but I just think if he hasn't developed and rounded his game much in the first half of his career, or at least not as much as he has done to his muscles, he probably won't a great deal in the next half. He hit the ground running extremely well like a seasoned veteran at a very young age, but I don't see him hitting the same heights as some other historically slower starters have.

Ha, how many games did Pocock actually play this year? two?..three? It's a bit rich to say he hadn't developed his attacking play, when he really never got the opportunity. He mentioned at the start of the season he was working on that area and I did notice in those first 2 or 3 games that he was actively trying to run with ball a bit more often, although his season ended too soon to make any ground in that department.

Regardless of what improvements he tries to make, Pocock will never be as well rounded as McCaw, nor will he ever have Hooper's pace or Gills handling. He will forever be a defensive player, but one that I would rate as the world's best. He is a player that teams have to develop a plan to counter, otherwise he brings their attack to a grinding halt. I doubt the Lions are spending a lot of time planning how to counter Hooper.

I recall people having this same debate during last years EOYT, when Pocock came back from injury (i.e. whether Hooper had surpassed Pocock). Pocock was chosen at 7 and put on another defensive clinic with 2 or 3 match changing pilfers.

Two very different players with different skill sets. I probably prefer what Pocock offers as Hooper cannot pilfer to the standard of a Brussow, McCaw and Pocock, the players that have been considered the best no.7s over the last 4 years. I would put ability to steal opposition ball as the hallmark of a world class 7 and their most important attribute.

But when all is said and done I wouldn't be surprised if Gill turned out be our best no.7

 

[Braveheart81]

One thing I've noticed from the first two Lions games is that they've been a bit week in defence around the edge of the ruck. This could give Hooper's running game more of a lift.

It will be interesting to see what ends up happening with Gill and Hooper. Logic would suggest that Gill is more suited to starting the game where it will be trench warfare and Hooper can come on in the second half when things open up a bit.

Hooper has more experience though and his ability to run the ball will be even more valued now that Higginbotham is out.

 

[fatprop]

One thing I've noticed from the first two Lions games is that they've been a bit week in defence around the edge of the ruck. This could give Hooper's running game more of a lift.

It will be interesting to see what ends up happening with Gill and Hooper. Logic would suggest that Gill is more suited to starting the game where it will be trench warfare and Hooper can come on in the second half when things open up a bit.

Hooper has more experience though and his ability to run the ball will be even more valued now that Higginbotham is out.

good point, especially if Mowen is given the 6 spot (which he deserves)