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Wallabies v Poms, EOYT 2010, Twickenham

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RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
.....Also you seem to think having a kicking coach is a magic bullet for all of our problems. You think this coach should just 'train up' our kickers until they got to 80%. .....

No, not a 'magic bullet' at all, but a very important ingredient when we clearly have had problems in this crucial skills area. Why did Gits call for his old kicking coach after England 2 Sydney I wonder (and, amusingly, there some kind of odd debate with the ARU as to who would pay same)? Why did the ABs recruit Mick Byrne as kicking coach, and subsequently all the reports I read were that he worked v closely with DC (and other AB kickers)? When I studied Austin's detailed video analysis this year of Gits' kicking problems, there were indeed some quite subtle issues to address, and I could well see that a kicker himself would often find it difficult to self-analyse all these technical dimensions, and then self-correct them too, especially when his performance has sagged.

Fundamentally Barb, with my suggestions, all I am trying to do is to look for solutions now, or what were credible solutions some time back. I just believe this team has the intrinsic capability to be a lot better than it is, and I certainly don't agree that just telling players to 'do it better lad' or just dropping and recycling players is in any sense a full-enough strategy to getting the Wallabies to a position of sustained, vs near random, excellence across all the key facets of play.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
I have a real problem with this. I believe England were the better team on the day, but even live and from 4 stories up in the stand I could see that turnover was bogus. Just shits me when it's this obvious.

Agree re England, they played to their game plan very well. But on the Genia strip Joubert decided early on it was a Pommy turnover and moved to the short touch line and on the Australian defensive line. Why the fuck didn't the TJ/AR on the other side tell him through his earpiece the Pommy prick was lying well over the Oz side of the breakdown? Rugby still has a way to go co-ordinating the three officials working as a team; soccer does it so much better.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Redshappy, don't take it personally but as you seem to have the same effect as my ex wife, this had better be my last post on this.


RD has manifestly not groomed a successor kicker in the proper developmental sense I referenced. I know the facts re other S14 kickers in the team. Building a successor(s) would have entailed: through, say, 2009, have another kicker either share match duties, and/or consistently take a type of kick (as was just once sloppily trialled v Ireland this year), and/or kick as No 1 in lower profile Tests. Then, a specialised kicking coach would have been retained to support train with the main kicker, and two support/successor kickers until the % success rate over a season was a minimum 80%+. Just look at the kicking disasters this year up to and including Saturday. If it wasn't so serious, it'd be utterly laughable frankly in a top-tier football team. I still say: picking JO'C as No 1, is high-risk/potentially ill-considered, for the reasons noted.
It is beyond belief that you are suggesting there is no succession plan with goal kickers, I will defer to barbarians comments later in this thread in this regard.

3. Re defence. I did certainly quote facts and stats, namely by referencing the peerless Austin's published (here) work. You can easily find it, it's all 100% clear, and additionally see his blog today. All his predictions have come true re the negative impact on w-l if the Wallabies could not sustain a successful tackle ratio at about 90% v top teams. Just look at Saturday - every objective commentator has been appalled at the Wallabies' poor defence in key match....and this is after 3 full seasons under Deans. The idea that this is not any proper responsibility/accountability of a top coach/es after 3 years in the saddle is laughable, sorry. Then, if you add point 2 above to 3 here, it's nearly a disgrace of poor technical coaching depth and critical KPI underachievement by the team and coaches. Most commentators would argue that Australia once did have consistent excellence in defence, so we disagree when you argue this was never the case.
Either you compare statistics from one point in time to another to chart progress or you go with the vibe. you can't just quote stats from 1 game to make a point about performance over a 3 year period.But since you did, if Alexander & the Bogan made their tackles your goal of 90% would have been achieved...So what do you do with this data now?
4. I did not call for QC (Quade Cooper) to be dropped; I said the fact that his massive defence inadequacies had not improved was IMO in part a coach's responsibility and was tied in with the whole poor situation as per 3 above
.
So what you actually mean is ...Don't drop QC (Quade Cooper) but blame RD cos QC (Quade Cooper) is shit????

6. You have just completed misunderstood/distorted my point. The point is that the required 'mental fortitude/hard mind' in a top team is required for all of 80 minutes, not all of 60. Please name the sports psychologists that RD has used, that would help.
I think you misunderstood my point, quite often in a tussle with the ebb & flow of a game it is not until around the 60 minute mark that the superior team starts to assert their superiority. this does not necessarily mean the losing side is mentally weak.
In regards to stating Wallaby staff...I don't know, but if this is central to your point, then shouldn't you be naming the FULL TIME sports phsychologists for EVERY 3N & 6N sides to demonstarte your point that RD is negligent in not employing each & every one of them?

5. Re Skills Coach Graham. Do you consider that the NZRU would happily release one of The Cartel to go to a provincial side 10 months before a RWC? Of course not, as they have achieved outstanding KPIs for NZ and all three are deemed critical to 2011. Nothing will convince me that if RG had been doing a similarly capable job for Oz, the ARU would have let him drop off a highly important (to 2011) EOYT and thus requiring 'emergency coaching replacements' for such a tour...plus I fail to see any meaningful core 'Skills' KPI that RG actually delivered upon 2009-10.
You complain he was given the job, you complain he left the job, you complain when he is replaced? Either he was the wrong man & you are glad he is gone, or he was the right man & are upset he is gone .Or is what you are saying he is fucking hopeless but I want him to stay there?
8b. Elsom - a coach plus the ARU picks a Captain. Both coach and Captain should properly be judged on the calibre of that call, as revealed over time. Personally, and this is of course debatable, I would rate him since commencement as Captain about 6/10.
Your use of hindsight when discussing choices/events past is consistent.You criticise his appointment but cannot still name an alternative at that point in time.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Why? Just a cheap shot(s). 'Let's have a giggly, subtly personal, group jibe at RH's text length, but not discuss the substance'. None of the core issues I raised were (amicably or otherwise) dealt with or rebutted after my post. There are issues that sometimes must be set forth with a bit of text and a bit of 'stream of thought'. Tons of amusing, quippy one or two liners are fine for certain topics, but, IMO, not for all. And if people think 'oh no, not more boring and irrelevant text from RH', the great thing about blogs is just: don't bother to read RH, move on quickly to the preferenced brevity.'

I have endured jibes (some quite unpleasant) from Groucho, Cyclo, Daz, DPK/TK and others (incl Gaggs) over many months, some clearly designed not only to undermine my style, but also on occasion to deter the consistent substantive line being conveyed which offends these posters' general preference for a particular kind of Wallabies'/RD non-critiqueing that I question.

RH, your posts are a bit long. I scan through this forum in between doing other things and the longer posts I tend to skip as I just don't have the time. I also like to save a little of that time to say my piece if I wish. It is out of no disrespect to you but I do tend to skip your posts for that reason. If it makes you feel any better, I do the same to a lot of Lee Grants posts for exactly the same reason. My advice is shorten them down mate.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
RH, your posts are a bit long. I scan through this forum in between doing other things and the longer posts I tend to skip as I just don't have the time. I also like to save a little of that time to say my piece if I wish. It is out of no disrespect to you but I do tend to skip your posts for that reason. If it makes you feel any better, I do the same to a lot of Lee Grants posts for exactly the same reason. My advice is shorten them down mate.

Ruggo - thank you sincerely for this courteous post; if we all dealt with each other this way, life would be good! IMO, you should not miss out on LG's work though, do read when you can, as IMO he's a rare treasure of the code and I for one have learnt hugely from reading him. Very amusing too, quite often.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
In our quest for perfection from our Golden Boys, we seem to be focused on the little bits we need to do to achieve the greatness that we all know our Men In Gold deserve.

For all the inherent issues in the team, we are No 2 in the World at the moment. We have beaten The Darkness, and the boys, whilst somewhat inconsistent, have the confidence and potential to go all the way next year at RWC. We have also beaten the ex #2, and on the high Veldt no less.

There is tons to work on between now and then. Like it or love it, we are stuck with Dingo and most of the current tranche of Wobs. In many instances there is no viable fit alternative. Injuries and unavailability’s are a fact of life, and while having no TPN or Cliffy impacts on our performance, we can do nothing about it apart from wish them a speedy recovery to full fitness.

There are structural and managerial issues for JON and Dingo to sort out with Club Wob, and let’s hope that these can be resolved before the point of no return for RWC 11.

Footy is a cruel mistress. Look at the Ping Pong GF this year, one week a tie and arguably it should have been a St Kilda victory. The next week the Saints were absolutely flogged by a rampant Magpie mob. What changed in that week between GF's? Everything and nothing.

So what if the bloody Soap Dodgers beat us at home in a game that doesn't really matter in terms of RWC. Sure we've gotta put up with all sorts of rubbish from them at work, and in the pubs and clubs. If life was so good over there, why do so many of them want to emigrate here? I digress.

What’s to work on?
On Field Leadership and Game Plan Management – How do we work out when Plan A is not working and do we have the ability to switch to Plan B or C?

Decision Making – Linked to above – when to take quick taps & when not to; when to kick for touch vs kick for goal; when to emulate King Ritchie’s breakdown/tackle rules - what is the best part of the field (and game) and in what tactical situation should we commit professional and cynical fouls.

Individual Skills - The basics - Tackle, Pass and Catch. Some need to work on these. ‘nuff said. Is this Dingo’s problem or the individual’s?
Maybe some private tuition is needed (funded by the players or player managers themselves, and conducted in their own time). Parents and students do this all the time to increase their chances of successful outcomes in exams, at school and uni. Why can’t individuals take more individual responsibility for achieving the standards demanded by the National Coach? It is their job after all. They are in the entertainment business.

Small Group Skills. Don’t just leave it up to individuals to save us with consistent but random acts of inspiration, such as Bam Bam at the tackle contest, Gilbert simply being Gilbert, etc. Better communication between small groups such as Kicker and Kick Chasers, Thrower and Jumper/Lifters, Ruck/Maulers and Runners.

Strength vs Weakness. Linked to the game plan. Work out what our strengths and weaknesses are. Play to our strength and not our weaknesses. Avoid the opposition strengths and target their weaknesses. Not only is this a Team issue, but individuals need to know and understand themselves and their individual opponents strengths and weaknesses.

All players need the confidence and mental agility to know when their opponents are targeting their particular weaknesses, and have strategies to do something about about it. Give the opposition credit for doing their homework on us. If you want a one dimensional limited contest game then try mungoball. Rugby is Chess to Mungoball’s Checkers.

Discipline. Goes without saying. 14 players vs 15 players is always a big ask, even if it is only for 10 minutes, and even if the temporary absence is one of the players many pundits write off. It is still one less pair of arms and legs on the oval.
It doesn’t take much effort to kick the ball through the sticks to earn 3 points from a penalty. It might be as boring as batshit but it is still 3 points. Unfortunately the history books do not record the Batshit Index from the game. They simply record the winner being defined by the team with the most points when the referee blows fulltime.

Learn from King Richard of the Darkness. Infringe where the consequences from a possible penalty are minimised. Be aware that the sacred Cloak of Invisibility worn by King Richard allows a +2 infringement avoidance bonus. Note that the bonus is only effective against IRB referees, and seems to have no effect on video recording equipment. :lmao:

Do we have the ability to turn things around?
Absolutely. In the good old days, the Army turned civilians into Officers equipped with military skills and the leadership skills necessary to lead their platoon in warlike operations in around 3 months. There is no reason why JON and the ARU boyos can not do the same with Rocky and provide him with the necessary leadership and decision making skills.

If Rocky is not the man for the job of Captain, then who else? There does not appear to be an overwhelming list of suitable candidates for this role.

Same with Dingo, If not him, then who else and is there sufficient time to do this before RWC without severely impacting on our RWC11 preparations?

If it is at the assistant coach/specialist coach level, who comes in, and are they available? Should we be taking an entourage the size of Clive Woodward’s 2003 mob across to NZ next year? Can we actually afford it? I have heard that the rivers of gold are not flowing particularly swiftly into the Golden Lake in the basement at HQ ARU in St Leonard’s.

Bottom line, the victory by the Soap Dodgers should be seen as a minor setback in our overall campaign for RWC glory. In many aspects we were comprehensively outplayed and the scoreline represents a thumping, but in reality, with a couple of bits of luck at critical points, the game would have not only been significantly closer on the scoreboard, we could have won this bugger. IMHO I reckon that we could have achieved victory whilst still displaying the most of the miserable defence in certain channels, and rather aimless kicking game we saw at times on Sunday Morning.

I still really hate losing to the Poms.:(
 

MrMouse

Bob Loudon (25)
Hugh.J I like checkers and rugby. Is there something wrong with me? Where can I get help?

Besides that, a bloody terrific post that sums up the present situation pretty well without throwing blame left right and centre.
 

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
For all the inherent issues in the team, we are No 2 in the World at the moment. We have beaten The Darkness, and the boys, whilst somewhat inconsistent, have the confidence and potential to go all the way next year at RWC. We have also beaten the ex #2, and on the high Veldt no less.

Ummmmm....you're actually No 3 in the World at the moment. The ex #2 you mentioned are now ex #3.

Just saying.

IRB World Rankings - 15 November 2010

Position (last week) Member Union Rating Point
1(1) NEW ZEALAND 93.04
2(3) SOUTH AFRICA 86.70
3(2) AUSTRALIA 85.90
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Ummmmm....you're actually No 3 in the World at the moment. The ex #2 you mentioned are now ex #3.

Just saying.

IRB World Rankings - 15 November 2010

Position (last week) Member Union Rating Point
1(1) NEW ZEALAND 93.04
2(3) SOUTH AFRICA 86.70
3(2) AUSTRALIA 85.90

Will the Saffer results stand, with players being sent home on drugs charges?
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Mr Jarse, that was a post of the highest quality. I have little to add to it, other than to agree and say that one loss doesn't ruin us and that I'll make my judgement after the France game as to where we are at. If we play better in the next couple of weeks, then the England result will have been an aberration. If we were to be ordinary, then I would say that our chances next year don't look that great. For my money, we aren't going to be able to make too many changes to the wider squad and we've pretty much found our best 22 (with a couple of key guys to come back). If we can't do it with them, then so be it. I doubt anyone else will emerge as a test champion in the intervening time.

In the backs, I think we are right where we need to be, notwithstanding a couple of minor changes. But the personnel and the game plan is there and I'm enthusiastic about it. In the pack, the back up for Cliffy and Kev haven't measured up and we wanna hope that those boys are back and fit during the S15.
 

Joe Mac

Arch Winning (36)
The sentient in this thread is more erratic than James O'Connor's kicking.

That said you make some great points HJ, a very good post.

Unfortunately I cant seem to gain this optimism being in the midst of day 2 of soap dodging abuse about the rugby at work. As if winning is not enough, they really are the most unsportsmanlike nation on the planet.

Wow, that world rank of number 2 didn't last long...
 

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
The sentient in this thread is more erratic than James O'Connor's kicking.

That said you make some great points HJ, a very good post.

Unfortunately I cant seem to gain this optimism being in the midst of day 2 of soap dodging abuse about the rugby at work. As if winning is not enough, they really are the most unsportsmanlike nation on the planet.

Wow, that world rank of number 2 didn't last long...

I also agree that the HJ post is excellent.

If the soap dodgers beat SA on the weekend don't we go back to 2nd? (always assuming we beat Italy). Isn't this just a reflection of the fact that SA and OZ are neck and neck and each weekend can change the order?

PS. If England turn up like they did last weekend I think SA are in big trouble.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
I also agree that the HJ post is excellent.

If the soap dodgers beat SA on the weekend don't we go back to 2nd? (always assuming we beat Italy). Isn't this just a reflection of the fact that SA and OZ are neck and neck and each weekend can change the order?

PS. If England turn up like they did last weekend I think SA are in big trouble.

Hawko, I don't think the Saffas have a chance.

SA vs. Soapies is always a game I want to see both teams lose. ;)
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Saffers vs Soap Dodgers is not dissimilar to the Manly vs Melbourne mungoball GF of a couple of years back.

Which one do you dislike the least?>:D

Notwithstanding it has the potential to be a good game.

Just want it to be a 0-0 draw.:D
 

dougdew99

Allen Oxlade (6)
If you live in Pommy Land, you have to stand up and take the abuse... after the World Cup, I had people greeting me silently, just miming Jonny's kicking style... just comfort yourself that we usually have many more opportunities to crow than they do... and secretly, most Poms wish they were Australian... if we lose the Ashes, its gonna be hell out there...
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
To all the Expats in Pomgolia. Don't despair. Regardless of the Ashes outcome, and RWC 11 (in which we will knock them out in the semi), you will get all the payback you need from the glorious performances from our Olympians in London 2012.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
I just like to remind the Poms that so many of them live here in OZ that it can't be all bad. I also short circuit gloating by not moaning when we lose and not gloating myself when we win.

After the RWC2003 final I made a point of contacting all my English mates and congratulating them on their win. Most of them wanted to have a red hot go but couldn't because was fairly gracious about it.
 

Nusadan

Chilla Wilson (44)
To all the Expats in Pomgolia. Don't despair. Regardless of the Ashes outcome, and RWC 11 (in which we will knock them out in the semi), you will get all the payback you need from the glorious performances from our Olympians in London 2012.

Don't count the chickens early, HJ....I seriously think Great Britain will overhaul us Aussies in the medal table, they have been gaining more and more prominence in more sports...including swimming, cycling, rowing and triathlons, plus the usual athletics.
 
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