Wallaby Captaincy

[Highlander35]

There is sufficient time available for a fit Pocock to gain form and claim a spot in the RWC squad.

Beyond that, there's nothing we can say until he actually starts playing again.

 

[cyclopath]

We cannot give up on him yet. He was pushing McAWE as the best 7 running around. He may or may not make it back to the top level but we have to back him until he is told by the medicos that it's not going to happen.

This is just my personal opinion, but I never thought Pocock was really threatening McCaw as best in the world at that position, but I don't subscribe to the rhetoric that a 7 is defined by pilfers above all else. No mistake, Pocock was a superb player.
For me, the facets that Pocock did well, he did as well, if not better than, pretty much any other, McCaw included. Over the ball, defence / workrate.
But McCaw was always on another plane in terms of his rounded game - like Smith, he had so many more strings to his bow, I felt. His game kept changing.
The challenge for Pocock is twofold. Get back to match fitness and form. Re-define his role - the game of a 7 is changing with the way the breakdown is refereed, and he'll need to do this on the run.
Can he do it? You'd be a fool to say he couldn't, or that he would lack the drive and determination. But it will be a huge challenge.

 

[Tom Ando]

I think when you are talking about the best person for the role, you have to question whether their position in the squad is highly contested, and if that player lost form, would there be an obvious player who is currently not in the XV due to the coaches preference, but their ability isn't really far off that of the starter?

See for me Hooper's position at openside has always been a highly contested position, and his role as captain has limited healthy competition from Hodgo (and when back from injury Gill, Pocock etc). There were some games where I really wished Hodgo got the starting gig over Hooper this year in TRC. But Moore for example was highly regarded by the whole Rugby community as highly ranked hooker, and whilst TPN is good, you would pick Moore any day imo.

 

[Tomikin]

Who cares how good he was. It's completely deluded to think he'll come back the same player. My bet is he won't play another Test.

Like Ben Mowen after two knees and Tim Horan.. Is Moore stuffed too?

You asked why people are talking about him. I gave you the reason why.

 

[Ruggo]

This is just my personal opinion, but I never thought Pocock was really threatening McCaw as best in the world at that position, but I don't subscribe to the rhetoric that a 7 is defined by pilfers above all else. No mistake, Pocock was a superb player.
For me, the facets that Pocock did well, he did as well, if not better than, pretty much any other, McCaw included. Over the ball, defence / workrate.
But McCaw was always on another plane in terms of his rounded game - like Smith, he had so many more strings to his bow, I felt. His game kept changing.
The challenge for Pocock is twofold. Get back to match fitness and form. Re-define his role - the game of a 7 is changing with the way the breakdown is refereed, and he'll need to do this on the run.
Can he do it? You'd be a fool to say he couldn't, or that he would lack the drive and determination. But it will be a huge challenge.

I agree, McCaw's game has evolved over his career. He often plays more like a six in the second half of his career. Hard to compare a much younger Pocock. What I do see as similar between them as the best is that big engine and physical presence at the contact area.

 

[emuarse]

I'm not sure why this has even been raised? Hooper has been one of our standout players and has done well for a young player and captain.

More as a player than as a captain.
Some of his on field decisions have been questionable, as have one or two of his off field remarks

 

[Train Without a Station]

Cut the crap. At the age of 23 or 24 Pocock was already among the best pinchers in the games, and on an upwards trajectory, improving year on year. Before the injuries his ceiling was Richie McCaw, perhaps better.

Well done dismissing all the fair arguments about his weaknesses as "cut the crap". How would he have gone in the 2011 EWC QF if Nigel Owens was the ref and refereed us exactly the same way he did against Argentina?

And for record, 2012 was one of his work at test seasons. Doesn't really align with your onwards and upward theory.

Funny thing is a player always looks great when you only remember their strengths and forget all their weaknesses.

 

[Quick Hands]

More as a player than as a captain.
Some of his on field decisions have been questionable, as have one or two of his off field remarks

But the on field stuff is the same thing that people on this thread criticse all captains over - when to take/not take 3 points, when to take/ not take the scrum option. 99% of the time these calls are debatable at best.

I agree that he has made some unwise comments recently and without agreeing with the content - he is quite articulate and thoughtful when being interviewed.

 

[Athilnaur]

Not sure I'd dismiss Pocock's 2012 season as a 'work at' test season, but having been nominated as an IRB Player of the year in 2010 and 2011 I suppose you could make the argument. But then Hooper hasn't been nominated for that ever so not sure that leaves you anywhere.

It is a valid topic though, as both have valid claims to Captaincy, and to places in the Wallaby squad if fit.

I'd have Pocock as Captain over Hooper in a minute, and at his standard test form over Hooper there also. Hooper's dynamism in the loose for me does not compensate for our need to have formidable players in tight. Also Pocock's defensive ability is, I believe, incredible - and in this Pocock is very similar to McCaw. I suspect most coaches would see it the same way and try to get Hooper to play a 6 or stay on the pine. In fairness, Hooper is no slouch on defence, and his withering speed has seen him make tackles out of nowhere.

Pocock has had a string of knee injuries and almost no rugby games for two seasons. He has a huge mountain to climb to return to his former standard, and if it wasn't Pocock you'd see it as a long shot. But it is Pocock. I personally have no doubts he will return to his remarkable standard over the course of the Super Rugby season.

The question is will his body let him? And if I was McKenzie I wouldn't be holding my breath for Moore and Pocock.

No, if I was McKenzie I'd be turning to Horwill, doing my utmost to see him rebuild his form. I sincerely believe he has it in him to be a better player, and a better Captain, than ever.

 

[Joe Blow]

Bottom line is that if Pocock can bring himself back into form and stay healthy it will be a bonus for the Wallabies. Ditto for Stephen Moore.
We have pretty good backup in both positions when all are healthy but their leadership qualities are being sorely missed right now.

 

[formerflanker]

Is this thread moot until we have a new coach?

 

[Tomikin]

Is this thread moot until we have a new coach?

Captain Coach?

Bring back the Badger

 

[Slim 293]

Wayne Smith gives his opinion........

Would Australian rugby be in the sordid mess it is right now if Stephen Moore had not been injured in the opening minute of the opening Test of 2014?

It was patently clear by the end of last year’s British and Irish Lions series that Moore had had his fill of Beale’s behaviour. As a team elder, Moore could advise, cajole and occasionally rouse but after being installed as captain this year — the first step in a pointed campaign by coach Ewen McKenzie to improve team culture — he was finally in a position to dictate standards. He would constantly have been in Beale’s face, reminding him of his obligations to the gold jersey.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...of-kurtley-beale/story-e6frg7v6-1227094386518

 

[qwerty51]

So if he's blaming the appointment of Hooper, in the end that's Ewen's fault for selecting him.

 

[Viking]

Well done dismissing all the fair arguments about his weaknesses as "cut the crap". How would he have gone in the 2011 EWC QF if Nigel Owens was the ref and refereed us exactly the same way he did against Argentina?

Funny thing is a player always looks great when you only remember their strengths and forget all their weaknesses.

He probably still would have done well because he actually plays to the ref. Probably would have got penalised early and adjusted his game accordingly.

But the fact is he did do well. One of the best performances of a wallaby in the past decade. That is not something we should ever forget.

 

[Hoolly Doolly]

Personally, I think given the circumstances, Hooper is doing somewhere between okay and pretty well. There isn't really a better option at the moment so i think he is safe........

Hodgo

 

[ChargerWA]

Pocock will make it back and be as good as ever.

(Puts fingers in ears and begins lalalalalalala sounds)

Just give us this. We need it in our darkest hours.

 

[No4918]

So if he's blaming the appointment of Hooper, in the end that's Ewen's fault for selecting him.

Who else was there? It has been discussed ad nauseum. At the time it was the right call, by the time questions over his ability became serious enough to act on it was to far into the TRC to act. We will never know if a change on the EOYT under Link would have happened.

 

[Train Without a Station]

He probably still would have done well because he actually plays to the ref. Probably would have got penalised early and adjusted his game accordingly.

But the fact is he did do well. One of the best performances of a wallaby in the past decade. That is not something we should ever forget.

Seb, I'm merely saying if Lawrence didn't allow a free for all, he surely would have managed less of his momentum stopping pilfers.

I agree he would have played to the ref, he does not get overly penalised for his position, but when one of your biggest contributions is lessened due to officiating, you're going to be less effective.

 

[rugbyskier]

As far as I'm concerned the final nail was hammered into the coffin of Hooper's captaincy last night with Joubert's assessment on the field that he should be leading by example. That was the problem in Mendoza, with Hooper's ill-discipline translating to the whole team. Add to that his poor judgement in the Beale affair and I think his position is untenable. Compare and contrast his behaviour with Richie McCaw last night.