Waratahs 2011 post mortem

[GC]

I said early in the year and still think it holds true - the Tahs biggest problem is the 9/10 nexus. Sometimes it appears there's two separate teams playing - the forwards and the backs. Tahs have an excellent S15 forward pack but Burgo's slow service negates all the hard work they do (as an aside, if you could combine Burgess' and Phipps' talents, you'd have one amazing halfback). The constant changing of the 10 through injury meant there was never any time for an understanding between the 9 and 10 to build. Consequently there was just confusion which lead to kicking the ball away pointlessly. Turner was wasted on the wing and Beale just got pissed off to the point he left.

What the Tahs need is quick service from the halfback so the opposition defence hasn't aligned when the attack begins and a general at 10 who has a plan and communicates that plan to the 9. One of Cooper and Genia's biggest strengths is knowing when to keep the forwards trucking it up and when to unleash the backs. That's not flashy stuff and if the Tahs did the same, they'd be a far better team.

 

[RedsHappy]

.....As Hawko said and I mentioned after the game against the Bulls, Hickey pushes conservative risk averse tactics all year until there is no choice but to play a more running game. The problem is that the players are not used to playing this and their skills have been show time and time again not to be up to it. This is a coaching failure.....

For a Reds' fan to enter this den is to tempt fates worse than death (which could perhaps be compulsory attendance at a Tahs' 'how to to kick under pressure' coaching clinic run by BB and KB (Kurtley Beale)), but what better than to be able to quote the erstwhile Tom Carter on the matter of the crucial improvements the Tahs need to make to become a championship-winning team, vs a team that wins a lot yet never conquers the mountain top:

SMH: "Carter takes a swipe at the 'insane' Tahs":

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-swipe-at-the-insane-tahs-20110625-1gkmo.html

Actually, he's just gone up hugely in my estimations; in the typical Aus rugby media world of anodyne PR statements that amount to nothing, and relentless cop-outs and excuses-making, here is a bloke - on the inside! - willing to tell it like it is. Congratulations to him, I say. And it certainly isn't all about injuries, according to the refreshing and genuinely gutsy honesty of TC.

 

[Jnor]

Let it go boys, neither of you needed to post the above - it achieves precisely nothing.

Play the ball, not the man and all that.

 

[Rob42]

Anyone remember a game this year (think it was the cheetahs) when Palu was coming back from injury? Instead of starting with lots of injury history from the bench he was in the run on side. I tihnk he might have been taken off after 20-30min. Sums up it all up for me...

If I remember correctly, Louie, the team figured it would be better for him to start as he could be fully warmed up and know when he would be running on, rather than sitting on the bench and possibly needing to run on at a moment's notice. Made sense to me - I don't think anyone was expecting him to give a full 80 in his first game back.

 

[Gnostic]

For a Reds' fan to enter this den is to tempt fates worse than death (which could perhaps be compulsory attendance at a Tahs' 'how to to kick under pressure' coaching clinic run by BB and KB (Kurtley Beale)), but what better than to be able to quote the erstwhile Tom Carter on the matter of the crucial improvements the Tahs need to make to become a championship-winning team, vs a team that wins a lot yet never conquers the mountain top:

SMH: "Carter takes a swipe at the 'insane' Tahs":

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-swipe-at-the-insane-tahs-20110625-1gkmo.html

Actually, he's just gone up hugely in my estimations; in the typical Aus rugby media world of anodyne PR statements that amount to nothing, and relentless cop-outs and excuses-making, here is a bloke - on the inside! - willing to tell it like it is. Congratulations to him, I say. And it certainly isn't all about injuries, according to the refreshing and genuinely gutsy honesty of TC.

RH I'll have to disagree on this point, I don't think TC has said anything particularly insightful in the interview. Gutsy to admit they have failed yes, to admit they have learned no lessons yes, but nothing of any real note was said.

 

[mark_s]

I said early in the year and still think it holds true - the Tahs biggest problem is the 9/10 nexus. Sometimes it appears there's two separate teams playing - the forwards and the backs. Tahs have an excellent S15 forward pack but Burgo's slow service negates all the hard work they do (as an aside, if you could combine Burgess' and Phipps' talents, you'd have one amazing halfback). The constant changing of the 10 through injury meant there was never any time for an understanding between the 9 and 10 to build. Consequently there was just confusion which lead to kicking the ball away pointlessly. Turner was wasted on the wing and Beale just got pissed off to the point he left.

What the Tahs need is quick service from the halfback so the opposition defence hasn't aligned when the attack begins and a general at 10 who has a plan and communicates that plan to the 9. One of Cooper and Genia's biggest strengths is knowing when to keep the forwards trucking it up and when to unleash the backs. That's not flashy stuff and if the Tahs did the same, they'd be a far better team.

I concur. Burgess and BArnes/Hangers were a combo that would always keep us there or there abouts but arn't going to win us the comp. Plus they still have their 1-2 games a year that they lose to teams they should beat, home finals are the key to winning this comp. The draw also makes more of a difference. The tahs benefited by not having to play the stormers this year, however the NZ and SA teams they have played at home have all been from the bottom half of the ladder where as the away games were against the teams in the top half of the ladder.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I read that Carter interview and he's gone up in my estimation too. I think his remarks were pretty much on the money.

 

[Gnostic]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...of-victory-is-still-sweet-20110625-1gkmn.html

This from J. Pandaram. Another who has failed to understandthe concept of what the issues are with the Tahs. He fails to even realise that the Tahs didn't play "high risk" attractive rugby against the Blues. The problem all year has been the rubbish execution and the poor basic skills. Beale showed it from the outset kicking out on the full, and again a bit later and he was by far the best of the NSW backs.

 

[waratahjesus]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...of-victory-is-still-sweet-20110625-1gkmn.html

This from J. Pandaram. Another who has failed to understandthe concept of what the issues are with the Tahs. He fails to even realise that the Tahs didn't play "high risk" attractive rugby against the Blues. The problem all year has been the rubbish execution and the poor basic skills. Beale showed it from the outset kicking out on the full, and again a bit later and he was by far the best of the NSW
backs.

Not having a go gnostic, just wondering if you could expand on what you believe to be "high risk" football. The tahs in my opinion certainly tried to play it on Friday, it didn't come off, thus it was ugly and produced mistakes in the conditions, I actually think if they had played with there mid season "boring" tactics they could have pulled off the win as running, as kurtley showed by slipping so many times when he took on the line in playing "attractive" or "running" rugby didn't do the damage it would have in the dry.

I actually think that article sums it up pretty well, the quotes from the blues sums up my feelings on it to. I know we have different opinions on it, but just wondered if "high risk" is only good when it pays off?

 

[Richo]

I said early in the year and still think it holds true - the Tahs biggest problem is the 9/10 nexus. Sometimes it appears there's two separate teams playing - the forwards and the backs. Tahs have an excellent S15 forward pack but Burgo's slow service negates all the hard work they do (as an aside, if you could combine Burgess' and Phipps' talents, you'd have one amazing halfback). The constant changing of the 10 through injury meant there was never any time for an understanding between the 9 and 10 to build. Consequently there was just confusion which lead to kicking the ball away pointlessly. Turner was wasted on the wing and Beale just got pissed off to the point he left.

What the Tahs need is quick service from the halfback so the opposition defence hasn't aligned when the attack begins and a general at 10 who has a plan and communicates that plan to the 9. One of Cooper and Genia's biggest strengths is knowing when to keep the forwards trucking it up and when to unleash the backs. That's not flashy stuff and if the Tahs did the same, they'd be a far better team.

This.

It's baffling how the Tahs could have maybe the best pack in Super rugby and one of the best back lines and still not be able to dominate regularly. I think you've hit the nail on the head. Burgess should have become a great halfback, but he never learned to pass the ball; Barnes is, IMO, a better 12 than 10.

Addressing this area should be the number one concern for the Tahs for next year.

 

[waratahjesus]

This.

It's baffling how the Tahs could have maybe the best pack in Super rugby and one of the best back lines and still not be able to dominate regularly. I think you've hit the nail on the head. Burgess should have become a great halfback, but he never learned to pass the ball; Barnes is, IMO, a better 12 than 10.

Addressing this area should be the number one concern for the Tahs for next year.

I think this area is where injuries came into it this year though, we played three different tens and cupped and changed a bit, keeping hangers there permanently and bringing barnes in and out of 12 might have been a better idea in hiensight but the original starting 15 would still be in this comp so it's hard to argue against picking barnes at ten when he was available

 

[Richo]

I think this area is where injuries came into it this year though, we played three different tens and cupped and changed a bit, keeping hangers there permanently and bringing barnes in and out of 12 might have been a better idea in hiensight but the original starting 15 would still be in this comp so it's hard to argue against picking barnes at ten when he was available

True. Barnes-Carter-Horne was nice.

 

[waratahjesus]

True. Barnes-Carter-Horne was nice.

Even nicervwhen turner, beale and Mitchell where in there true positions to finish moves off as well.

 

[Richo]

Ah, the good old days of Week 2, 2011.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

I said early in the year and still think it holds true - the Tahs biggest problem is the 9/10 nexus. Sometimes it appears there's two separate teams playing - the forwards and the backs. Tahs have an excellent S15 forward pack but Burgo's slow service negates all the hard work they do (as an aside, if you could combine Burgess' and Phipps' talents, you'd have one amazing halfback). The constant changing of the 10 through injury meant there was never any time for an understanding between the 9 and 10 to build. Consequently there was just confusion which lead to kicking the ball away pointlessly. Turner was wasted on the wing and Beale just got pissed off to the point he left.

What the Tahs need is quick service from the halfback so the opposition defence hasn't aligned when the attack begins and a general at 10 who has a plan and communicates that plan to the 9. One of Cooper and Genia's biggest strengths is knowing when to keep the forwards trucking it up and when to unleash the backs. That's not flashy stuff and if the Tahs did the same, they'd be a far better team.

I agree. You think if the Tahs sign Sarel Pretorius they'd be one step closer to fixing this?

 

[drewprint]

Ah, the good old days of Week 2, 2011.

Eh. Overrated.

 

[#1 Tah]

At least we weren't the biggest mis-fire of the comp. That title goes to the bulls.

 

[Gnostic]

Not having a go gnostic, just wondering if you could expand on what you believe to be "high risk" football. The tahs in my opinion certainly tried to play it on Friday, it didn't come off, thus it was ugly and produced mistakes in the conditions, I actually think if they had played with there mid season "boring" tactics they could have pulled off the win as running, as kurtley showed by slipping so many times when he took on the line in playing "attractive" or "running" rugby didn't do the damage it would have in the dry.

I actually think that article sums it up pretty well, the quotes from the blues sums up my feelings on it to. I know we have different opinions on it, but just wondered if "high risk" is only good when it pays off?

"High Risk" was J Pandaram's charecterisation from the quoted story not mine.

What did they do in the first 20 minutes? They passed the ball accurately and executed well with ball in hand and with kicking. In the final 60 they kicked the ball out on the full, failed to chase mid field kicks in numbers effectively, kicked directly to well positioned opponents, threw poor passes behind, above, or on the ground instead of to the intended recipient. There was nothing at all wrong with the Tactics they used if the basic execution had been good, but as with the rest of the season the basic skills were lacking. The mid season "boring" tactics were no different to what they played, in fact it was identical, except for the first 20. The Tahs didn't play high risk they just played poorly, with the usual sub standard execution of basic skills.

The irony is the Brumbies are the epitome this year of a team that does not kick at all. They make lots of line breaks but cannot string together two or three passes without dropping the pill and their midifeld usage was horrible as was the whole setup with props at 10. Qld, lauded for their running play actually kick more than the Tahs, but the huge difference is the fact that they execute those kicks very well and even a poor kick fielded by an opponent is generally put under pressure by effective chasers.

 

[Stickybeak]

In the words of Al Pacino someone needs to take a flamethrower to the place. The latest evidence of the utterly unrealistic world in which the Tahs operate consists of an email from them inviting school children to participate in Camp Waratah during the July school holidays. The email was received by me today: i.e. 1 day prior to July. Most of the private schools are on holidays: private schools are the only thing keeping rugby going in NSw and maybe Australia so what is the point of sending out this invitation after the holidays have started and arrangements have been made. Even for the public scholl families plans would have been made months ago.
A farce.
A farce.
The games professional but the administration is amateur.

 

[Hawko]

In the words of Al Pacino someone needs to take a flamethrower to the place. The latest evidence of the utterly unrealistic world in which the Tahs operate consists of an email from them inviting school children to participate in Camp Waratah during the July school holidays. The email was received by me today: i.e. 1 day prior to July. Most of the private schools are on holidays: private schools are the only thing keeping rugby going in NSw and maybe Australia so what is the point of sending out this invitation after the holidays have started and arrangements have been made. Even for the public scholl families plans would have been made months ago.
A farce.
A farce.
The games professional but the administration is amateur.

Was this invitation from the Waratah side of the business or the NSWRU side? Not to be pedantic but they are two separate entities.