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Waratahs 2012

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qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
The problem imo is not in the centres or 10. It's the outside backs, we have got a completely different back 3 from the last 2 years. That back 3 was the strength of the team with 2 world class players and an international and now we've got 2 rookies and an out of form international. Kingston whilst he has performed well doesn't look an out and out winger to me, I'd prefer Pakalani if he's ready with Kingston coming on in the centres later in the game. None of them are really providing the attack that Mitchell and Beale gave us with their tackling busting run, you could always rely on them beating the first defender.

But yes I struggle to see why Barnes Carter Horne is not used, it's worked so often in the past and seems obvious.
 
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I like to watch

David Codey (61)
A major contributing factor to the situation that the 'Tahs find themselves in is a selection experiment that has now been demonstrated to be wrong. It will be interesting to see if coach Foley is prepared to reverse that decision or if he persists with it against the Sharks.

I refer to the replacement of Tom Carter with Berrick Barnes at inside centre for the last two games. Carter had had an outstanding game in Round 2 against the Rebels so we can assume he was not dropped because of poor form. The logical inference is that Foley feels that Carter's contribution to the team is so insignificant that he should be the one dropped to make way for a player still carrying an obvious injury and/or that Barnes is a better player than Carter at 12.

Tom Carter has been the linchpin of the Waratah's backline since he made his debut in 2008. Since then he has missed just one of 64 games the team has played. He has been a starting player in 51 games, very occasionally at 13 but predominantly at 12. He is the foremost kick chaser in the competition and he is the go-to man in the backline when it is being pressured, because of his ability to take the ball forward and bend the defensive line without turning it over. He is the architect of the Waratahs' impressive backline defence but I contend that he does a somewhat similar job in relation to their attacking alignment. Evidence of this was the very obvious lack of structure and shape of the backline in both defensive and attacking modes in the last two games. Too frequently it verged on the chaotic.

So did the omission of Carter give more thrust to the backline as had been widely anticipated? In Rounds 1 and 2 with Carter at 12 the Waratahs played against a strong team and then a weak team, judged by the betting odds. In Rounds 3 and 4 with Carter on the bench the Waratahs again played against a strong team and then a weak team. In the first two games the Waratahs made 10 line breaks against 2 by their opposition. In the two most recent games the Waratahs made 1 line break against 7 by their opposition. [Source: Rugby Stats]

No one would argue against the proposition that Barnes is a more gifted player than Carter. The point at issue is who is the better 12.Let's look at some relevant statistical measures for the two players in Super Rugby since 2008 when they both made their debuts:

Runs: Barnes 200; Carter 370
Tackles bust: 51; 109
Linebreaks: 15: 19
Pilfers: 0; 5
Turnovers forced: 1; 5
Errors: 79; 28
Tries: 3; 13
Tackles attempted: 482; 579
Tackles missed: 88; 56
Percent of tackle attempts missed: 18.3; 9.7
[Source: Fox Sports Fantasy]
lies damned lies and statistics eh?
Barnes has played 58 games of which 23 were at 12, they are the only games where you should be comparing stats.
For 2 of the 4 seasons you measure these statistics, BB played for the Reds. In both those years the Reds won 3 of 13 games, whilst the Tahs won 9 of 13 in each of these seasons.
Unless you believe the difference in the performance between the 2 teams was solely down to Carter, then comparing stats for these players in this period is a waste of time.
 

Brumby Jack

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
I fear AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is being shunted the backline around to the detriment of his game.
IMO he is not a winger as was shown when Wara scored his try down AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s wing. Not for the first time, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was on the wrong side of the 15m line, but having said that, his passing is pretty much non-existant so I can see why he's on the wing.
I found it strange that he would moved to the wing instead of fullbackin place of Foley. I've seen AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s kicking gradually get better at the Brumbies so don't think that would be an excuse.

With Horne at outside centre it's obvious AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) won't play there but I would have thought that having a key player, and a Wallaby at that, should have a permanent position and then place the others around him.
 

Stands

Jimmy Flynn (14)
10 Barnes, 12 Carter, 13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), 14 Kingston, 15 Foley. Horne off the bench 'til he starts doing something with impact.
I wish we had some other options at 9, Pretorius is OK but not brilliant and it would be good to put his spot under pressure.

It's staggering to think at the beginning of the season when everyone is kean for rugby we get 15,000 at the SFS on a Saturday night.
They should give away any unsold tickets to anyone who is willing to showup wearing blue gear. At least it will give the players some support. It's time to drop the Waratahs name and use NSW it will bring more support and it's heaps easier to chant! Seriously it's time to broaden the appeal, to get more people at the game, I feel if this doesn't happen they will be in serious trouble they have disenfranchised enough die hard fans over the last few years with there poor performances and mgt performance of the games. I know I've said it a million times here, we have to have more games played there on game night, not under 6's at half time, colts or grade match of the round as the game before the Super game.
 

rugbysmartarse

Alan Cameron (40)
The tahs have shot themselves on the foot on 2 counts this season, as they did last season. I am a believer in the importance of home bush as an alternate home ground, but twice now our season opener has been at the alternate home, not the true home. Out first true home game has been against lesser opposition (cheetahs and this year force) so we are already drawing a smaller crowd to our first true home game. We then go and compound the issue by playing some really shithouse rugby at that first true home game.

As the ,issues said this morning, "anyone who hasn't already bought a ticket to the sharks game isn't going to"

Also, I think we can now see that Aussie derby games bring out the worst in both teams (opposite of the kiwi derbies), so maybe the draw should be pushed in a direction where we play a good tough foreign tea. First up at Moore park, not the reds at home bush, to get some interest going
 

MrMouse

Bob Loudon (25)
Do you kids that play rugby in Sydney get cheap/free tickets?

give familes that play rugby around the area cheap tickets. Get the place full and have cracker of atmosphere.
Agreed - it's not that hard. Distribute, say, 100 free tickets to each junior team. About 55 junior teams in Sydney. Another say 20 north and south within reach. That's 7500 easy. Do it twice a season. On other games, offer any registered rugby player (junior or senior) with a card (we certainly got cards in grade) discounted tickets to games. Just GA/nosebleed seating, but make it $10. You'll get another couplea thousand. Atmosphere pushes players, players play well, atmosphere increases, crowds enjoy themselves, crowds return, positive cycle achieved.
 

Brumbies Guy

John Solomon (38)
Let the kids in free.

If the kids are going, their friends will be there. If the kids are going, you'd think their parents would come along too (paying). The kids get to enjoy a day out and you'll hopefully have a bigger and happier crowd. They'll grow up following rugby and once they've reached the age hopefully they'll become paying members to continue what they grew up enjoying.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Rearranging the backline is one thing. However, the Tahs forwards were out enthused and outfought on Saturday night, that is the real problem.

I just cannot understand what has happened to Dean Mumm, in particular. Foley should be able to get the pigs working, if nothing else.
 

louie

Desmond Connor (43)
NSW Waratahs to hold internal forum after woeful performance in one-point loss to Western Force
  • By Jamie Pandaram
Having endured the public humiliation of being jeered by 14,000 of their own fans, New South Wales Waratahs will now face the private embarrassment of being judged by each other.

NSW's senior players and coaching staff held a no-holds-barred meeting on Sunday.
And on Monday they will gather as a squad to dish out some hard truths before training as they reflect on their worst start to a season since 1998.

The Waratahs' turbulent relationship with their supporters continues after the shock 21-20 loss to Western Force at the weekend.
They were also jeered from the field after a surprise defeat to the Cheetahs last year, which was followed by a heated "fan forum".
Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

Players will now have their own internal forum. But while it has the potential to ruin friendships, they concede it is necessary after three losses in four games.
"Everyone deals with honesty in their own way," winger Adam Ashley-Cooper said. "Even though it hurts short-term, there will be benefits long-term.
"We're only going to challenge each other if we want the best out of each other.
"Honesty hurts, but we're in an industry where you have to be honest, especially at this level.
"If we want to be the best and win this competition, we have to be honest with ourselves. There are 22 players who are accountable."
Waratahs hooker Tatafu Polota-Nau said: "Guys don't really take it personally, because it's for the benefit of the team, and we all bought into that. If they do, they're going into their shell. But we've been in instances like this and guys have experience from it. I'm confident guys can really take this lesson and progress to better things.
"Before the year started we said we needed to stay together.
"I still have confidence that the guys are barely scratching the surface of releasing their potential.
"We'll get there, it's just a matter of when.
"We went through this last year with the Cheetahs.
"We didn't execute there and the guys were disappointed, so we went back to the drawing board."
Ashley-Cooper, like NSW's supporters, hopes the back three receives some attacking ball this weekend against the Sharks.
"Set-piece let us down, and from a back-three perspective we just didn't get enough ball to attack with," Ashley-Cooper said.
Waratahs chief executive Jason Allen will remind the players to respect their fans in the aftermath of their humiliating loss.
Allen will be presented with a briefing by coaching staff into the sub-par performance at Allianz Stadium.
"I look forward to that," Allen said. "We're all disappointed but I am pretty confident the group will move forward.
"One thing we will be refocused on is that we really need to respect our fans and members.
"We have worked really hard as an organisation to reconnect with all of our fans."
Following the loss, Polota-Nau said the team did not care about the jeering because the game plan had been to kick the ball and play in the opposition's quarter.
Given the set-up of the competition, wins at home are crucial and NSW have lost their opening two in Sydney.
Rocky Elsom will remain sidelined this week with his hamstring injury, but NSW believe backrow enforcer Wycliff Palu will return after being troubled by cramp in the past fortnight.

taken from

 

Rob42

John Solomon (38)
Agreed - it's not that hard. Distribute, say, 100 free tickets to each junior team. About 55 junior teams in Sydney. Another say 20 north and south within reach. That's 7500 easy. Do it twice a season. On other games, offer any registered rugby player (junior or senior) with a card (we certainly got cards in grade) discounted tickets to games. Just GA/nosebleed seating, but make it $10. You'll get another couplea thousand. Atmosphere pushes players, players play well, atmosphere increases, crowds enjoy themselves, crowds return, positive cycle achieved.

Juniors do get free tickets to games, accompanying a paying adult, and I've taken advantage of that several times over the past couple of years with my son. But free tickets don't fill stadiums - people have no motivation to turn up if someone just shoves a free ticket into their hands. Unfortunately, what the Waratahs need is some buzz, a story that people want to be a part of, which just isn't happening at the moment. At the moment, the Waratahs' story is: the team that will underperform and frustrate the hell out of you several times a season. Who wants to fight traffic and overpriced food to see that?
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
Rugby is not about attracting average people. If the object was to do that we would: eliminate the scrums and lineouts, abolish rucks and mauls and after someone was tackled let them get up, stagger around and roll the ball between their legs while the other team get back 10m.
The problem with the Tahs is not that they dont attract average people its that people who love rugby, for all its imperfections, are jack of their underperformance.

I completely disagree. Anyone can enjoy rugby.
 

louie

Desmond Connor (43)
The phrase "circle-jerk" springs to mind.

Brilliant.

The contrast between the Brumbies and Tahs over the last year is fascinating to observe. Both seen as being too arrogant to there own good, not getting results, team morale at an all time low, etc. Brumbies are trying to fix the problem but having a good clean out and getting a coach that wants to change the culture. Tahs have promoted their new coach from within and are in a state of denial.

I was at the Tahs v Reds game and what should out for me is how miserable the tahs looked. You'd think with a new coach and a game against your rivals you'd be busting out of skin.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
Brilliant.

The contrast between the Brumbies and Tahs over the last year is fascinating to observe. Both seen as being too arrogant to there own good, not getting results, team morale at an all time low, etc. Brumbies are trying to fix the problem but having a good clean out and getting a coach that wants to change the culture. Tahs have promoted their new coach from within and are in a state of denial.

I was at the Tahs v Reds game and what should out for me is how miserable the tahs looked. You'd think with a new coach and a game against your rivals you'd be busting out of skin.

What are they in denial about?

They have played three decent games and one shocker, the results havnt come and they have been pretty honest about there failings. I don't understand this at all.
 
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