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Waratahs 2012

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Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I think we have to start Pretorius this week.

McKibbin didn't have a good game against the Brumbies and Pretorius is long overdue for a start. He's too good to be getting less than 20 minutes a match.

Assuming everyone from the Brumbies game is available, Horne back to 13, Kingston to the wing, Betham dropped.

Alcock back to 7 and Jenkins probably misses out on the 22.

If TPN is unavailable, Ulugia has to start and who knows who our reserve hooker is. Hopefully TPN is ok.
 
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Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
It's one good game from 10, when JOC (James O'Connor) comes back they will be teamed up in midfield and there defense will be exposed.

Was just joking, although I believe players like Kurts and JOC (James O'Connor) wouldn't have moved there without get out clauses.
I expect your are right - but there has to be a trigger: Cipriani leaving seems an unlikely one. usually its coaching changes.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Hopefully TPN is ok.

I hope he is Ok too but he should not play under any circumstances. I don't care if he can recite the alphabet backwards and tell the Tahs what I had for breakfast.
Yes he is a professional footballer and sure they perform their psychometric testing and compare it to his baseline and say he's fully recovered but there are 2 problems with that as I see it: the lesser one is that this is becoming an almost weekly occurrence.
The major one is that it is a very bad look for the game: he was staggering around stumbling and falling over his own feet - which is a bad enough look. But he was permitted to resume when someone should have put their foot down and said "no". The sight of him a little later flat out looking skyward only magnified the error or permitting him to continue. There is no doubt on my understanding that the outcome of the second blow to his head was likely to be a lot more serious by virtue of its closeness in time to the first - thats one reason why they have mandatory exclusions for head injuries in juniors.
This sends completely the wrong message to kids (and dare I say mothers) watching.
Head injuries cannot and should not be treated lightly and kids should not be allowed to think that they can be treated lightly.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I don't think it's as simple as that though. It did look ugly when he tried to get back up and fell over, but that happens. If you spin yourself round until you get dizzy and fall over then try to stand straight back up again, you'll probably fall over too. Temporary loss of balance does not prove concussion.

The second incident when McCabe's shoulder hit his head was completely unrelated to the first.

I have confidence that he was reasonably assessed by the Tahs doctor before he was allowed to remain on the field after the first incident. Different people react very differently to a head knock and it would seem that TPN recovers very quickly from them without the confusion and amnesia associated with consussion. If he didn't, his career would have probably ended already.

I'm not trying to say it wasn't an uncomfortable situation being at the ground and watching him first get hit and lying prostrate on the ground and then trying to get up and falling over however I don't think we can make a judgement from afar.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I don't think it's as simple as that though. It did look ugly when he tried to get back up and fell over, but that happens. If you spin yourself round until you get dizzy and fall over then try to stand straight back up again, you'll probably fall over too. Temporary loss of balance does not prove concussion.

The second incident when McCabe's shoulder hit his head was completely unrelated to the first.

I have confidence that he was reasonably assessed by the Tahs doctor before he was allowed to remain on the field after the first incident. Different people react very differently to a head knock and it would seem that TPN recovers very quickly from them without the confusion and amnesia associated with consussion. If he didn't, his career would have probably ended already.

I'm not trying to say it wasn't an uncomfortable situation being at the ground and watching him first get hit and lying prostrate on the ground and then trying to get up and falling over however I don't think we can make a judgement from afar.

BH this is wishful thinking. I am not in any way casting doubt on the medical staff - this is a serious matter and its the substance of it that concerns me.
The true damage being done will not be evident for some time: most of these linemen in the US were not even aware of having suffered any sort of brain trauma during a game and they were certainly not knocked unconscious on anything other than occasionally.
I agree that the 2 incidents were not related: my point is that brain trauma close together in time is the problem - this is the boxer's issue and it is the continual sub clinical concussions sustained by the lineman on a regular and repeated basis that do the damage.
The risk of further head trauma is basis enough for someone clearly having suffered a brain injury to be removed from the game. Concussion is a brain injury.
To sugest that his falling over could be equated with a person being dizzy from being spun around ignores 2 pertinent facts: he wasnt spun around; the mechanisms behind the loss of balance as between concussion and dizziness are completely different.
IMHO your post shows the very grave danger in not treating head injuries extremely seriously.

In fact I question whether what occurred on Saturday night is a breach of the IRB Policy on head injuries, which is here.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
It is not about catchment or squad size, it is who they choose in the backs to develop, we do forwards well.

It is about catchment though, if we have a full squad back in health, our wingers are Mitchell, turner, paka. There decent wingers. Add AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) it's not a bad four to choose from. Now it's the middle of the season and you take 2 of these away, you don't have next choice, you have next choice after every other Provence, Japanese, French, rugby league, hockey, soccer, professional career etc etc has had there pick.
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Is Foley back this week? He's a surprisingly important part of the Tahs backline. If so, I would play:

9 McKibbin
10 Barnes
11 Paka
12 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
13 Horne
14 Betham
15 Foley

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would offer everything Carter offers plus better speed (so he won't get beaten on the outside by the likes of Fruen) and, if needed, a better kick. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s game at 12 against the Barbarians a few years ago is just what the Waratahs need at 12.

After turning the corner on whether TC added value (from no to yes), I'm back in the no camp. If Foley isn't fit I'd almost be tempted to play Trist or Halangahu at 15. Carter on the bench.
 

Forcefield

Ken Catchpole (46)
Yes.

I would love to see AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) get two or three games at 12 to see how he goes. He was sensational at 12 in that Barbarians match. I think he offers a lot more than McCabe does.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
Agree with you cutter, although I think it's time to try Foley at 10. Barnes is a solid fullback and can introduce himself widerwhere his running game will be better utilized.

IfFoley is to be a long term 10 option, then it's a Good time to trial him, we know he is a quality fullback so his position in the squad will not be in question, may allow him a bit of freedom to chance his hand.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Is Foley back this week? He's a surprisingly important part of the Tahs backline. If so, I would play:

I think Foley is out for at least another week.

I agree that we really miss him. He has been the most threatening part of our attack this season. His ability to both bend the line and get the offload away has been crucial to us having any penetration.
 

Athilnaur

Arch Winning (36)
Makes no sense to me BR, he may tackle well, but lacks the speed or agility to run down speedsters in space.

Either way I'd say he's fish and chip paper after the last two games unless he's been nursing an injury. Or maybe the tahs backs coach is actually a long term kiwi mole sent to undermine Aussie rugby!
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Seven changes as Tahs take Bulls by the horn

May 8, 2012

Back in the starting side ... Sarel Pretorius. Photo: Anthony Johnson
THE WARATAHS will react to their embarrassing loss to the Brumbies by making up to seven changes, including the promotion of Sarel Pretorius and the demotion of Tom Carter, for Friday night's game against the Bulls at Allianz Stadium.
After wasting so many early attacking opportunities in Canberra, the Waratahs selectors have no option but to revamp their midfield, with Daniel Halangahu in contention to replace Carter at inside centre, while Rob Horne will return to outside centre after returning from suspension.
It is understood the Waratahs selectors were pleased with Halangahu's performance off the bench last weekend, believing he can provide better support for five-eighth Berrick Barnes, who played a more direct game, regularly attacking the gainline with ball in hand. Halangahu's involvement will give the Waratahs two midfield distributors.
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After starting five games on the reserves bench Pretorius, the Waratahs' marquee overseas signing, is due for a recall to the starting line-up at the expense of Brendan McKibbin, which is not surprising, as the former Cheetahs halfback intimately knows what to expect from their South African opponents. McKibbin - who has provided the Waratahs with consistent goalkicking - and Carter both ran with the backup squad at yesterday's training session at Moore Park.
While fullback Bernard Foley ran yesterday, it remains doubtful he will be available because of his shoulder complaint, and it will be a few days before the selectors know if winger Tom Kingston, who appeared at outside-centre in Canberra, will play due to a hamstring concern.
The Waratahs pack will also have an overhaul. Openside breakaway Chris Alcock returns after having his appendix removed, and captain Rocky Elsom is preparing for his first starting appearance of the season. Although blindside breakaway Dave Dennis was one of the Waratahs' best in Canberra, the selectors know it is time for him to have a break. Although Dennis ran with the team yesterday, and Elsom was among the onlookers, a No.6 personnel change is imminent.
Wallabies hooker Tatafu Polota-Nau is likely to miss the Bulls match after suffering several serious head knocks against the Brumbies. While the Waratahs remain hopeful Polota-Nau will be available, they will not risk him, and John Ulugia was yesterday preparing as if he was about to take over as run-on hooker. A second row alteration is also probable.
Coach Michael Foley said the team yesterday reviewed their 17-point Canberra loss, and it wasn't pleasant. ''We're pretty disappointed by what happened. Then today we reviewed the game and were reminded of some of the things we set up for ourselves in that game and didn't finish off,'' he said.
The Waratahs, nine points behind the Brumbies at the top of the Australian conference, must win their next three encounters - all against South African teams - including two in the republic - to stay in touch. But they know the dangers of looking too far ahead.
''Every team wants to play in the finals, and every team wants to win the competition. Whether those things are a reality for us is not for us to think about right now,'' Foley said.
''We just have to play as well as we can in every game we play. Look at how we started against the Brumbies with the ball in hand - it was very positive. We were challenging and breaking the line. But we didn't finish off those chances. Now it is about creating those opportunities against the Bulls, and this time finishing them off.
''If we start thinking about what's going to happen at the end of the year, we'll take our eye off the ball right now.''

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/seven-changes-as-tahs-take-bulls-by-the-horn-20120507-1y92v.html#ixzz1uDS6vKBB
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Carter was marking Fruen against the Saders with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 10 & Kingston at 12

I didn't see the same structure against the Brumbies, but he can often end up on the wing at times
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Carter was marking Fruen against the Saders with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 10 & Kingston at 12

I didn't see the same structure against the Brumbies, but he can often end up on the wing at times
Seriously??
I didn't see them in contact all match...........
 

jay-c

Ron Walden (29)
so i assume the carter for wallabies campaign is finished for another year
he has been really poor the last two games and his inability to play anywhere other than inside center makes him pretty useless at test level
after all we already have a mccabe whos bigger stronger and faster
if foleys back id like to see the backs
pretorious, foley
barnes, horne
pakalani AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) kingston
 
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