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Waratahs 2016

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cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Quick Hands said:
Unfortunately, I don't have access to unlimited statistics.

However, it is proof that people will watch the Waratahs outside of Moore Park isn't it?

Wasn't the whole premise of the Davis rant that no one would watch the Waratahs if they had to leave Moore Park?

When it was pointed out that the Waratahs regularly drew good crowds to their previous matches at ANZ, you said it inter alia, that it was wrong to compare games v Brumbies and Reds at ANZ to other games at Alliance.

Well we now have a direct comparison and it provides some evidence that the position of Davis is in fact incorrect. A Brumbies game at each venue. I never said it was definitive proof by the way - you put that spin on it.
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I didn't say it was wrong to compare data, I said it was wrong to pick 2 pieces of data and make a case on that. A broader set of data will be more meaningful. I'm not arguing that Davis is right, and of course people will go to other venues. I'm not arguing they wouldn't. There is a reason the particular games were at ANZ - they know they'll get a particular draw on crowds with certain teams. We don't know that that would apply across the board. You've picked a side, and that's great, but nothing is proven.
 
Inside Shoulder

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Seems to me that the most important factor in Tahs crowds is how they are travelling on the field.
There'll be a few spare seats from now on, I think.
It would be interesting to work out where they were on the ladder when they posted those crowds @ ANZ. Interesting, but not interesting enough form me to do it: o_O
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
In 2005, the Waratahs consistently drew mid to high 30K crowds at Allianz (Aussie Stadium then) peaking at over 39K against the Crusaders with 5 crowds well over 35K, including SA teams, who in recent times pull poorer crowds. What does this prove? Nothing, except the Waratahs have had a massive erosion in fan base. In fact the decline over the past 10 years tells a bigger story - fewer people go to Waratahs games at all.
The average crowd per season over 10 years compared to the average attendance at ANZ v Allianz over those same years would be the most meaningful. The 40K for the Brumbies was 6 years ago, and the ANZ numbers are going down since then too. Brumbies will stay the best chance as they have fans in Sydney and fans who will travel to Sydney. Plus, I suspect, easier to go to ANZ than Allianz.
Ultimately, they have a massive problem. Western Sydney should not be dismissed at all. Maybe the revamped ANZ will be more attractive? Certainly for me to go from the East is quite simple, but I don't like the stadium experience there. I know many more people who identify as rugby fans who don't go to games than do - that's the problem, getting bloody fans to want to go.
 
Quick Hands

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
cyclopath said:
In 2005, the Waratahs consistently drew mid to high 30K crowds at Allianz (Aussie Stadium then) peaking at over 39K against the Crusaders with 5 crowds well over 35K, including SA teams, who in recent times pull poorer crowds. What does this prove? Nothing, except the Waratahs have had a massive erosion in fan base. In fact the decline over the past 10 years tells a bigger story - fewer people go to Waratahs games at all.
The average crowd per season over 10 years compared to the average attendance at ANZ v Allianz over those same years would be the most meaningful. The 40K for the Brumbies was 6 years ago, and the ANZ numbers are going down since then too. Brumbies will stay the best chance as they have fans in Sydney and fans who will travel to Sydney. Plus, I suspect, easier to go to ANZ than Allianz.
Ultimately, they have a massive problem. Western Sydney should not be dismissed at all. Maybe the revamped ANZ will be more attractive? Certainly for me to go from the East is quite simple, but I don't like the stadium experience there. I know many more people who identify as rugby fans who don't go to games than do - that's the problem, getting bloody fans to want to go.
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We are in agreement.:)

This tends to prove that people will go to watch the Waratahs at stadia other than Alliance - which is not what Roger Davis would have us all believe. His proposition even on the information that you provide here is clearly false.

But do people who say that they hate Homebush still go to the games? Certainly some don't, probably some do and maybe some different fans who wouldn't go to Alliance certainly do.

For an organisation which says that it plays for the whole of NSW, the stated position of their chairman is quite odd to say the least (not to mention being incorrect).

I suspect that Roger Davis serves as the perfect example of why rugby in 2016 doesn't have as big a presence in western Sydney as it should. He sees the game as being one for the north and east and is happy to ignore evidence to the contrary - assuming that he even looked at any evidence before opening his mouth.
 
Quick Hands

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
cyclopath said:
I I'm not arguing they wouldn't. There is a reason the particular games were at ANZ - they know they'll get a particular draw on crowds with certain teams. We don't know that that would apply across the board. You've picked a side, and that's great, but nothing is proven.
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But do they know that? Or are they simply reinforcing their own prejudices?

What seems to be proven is that people will watch the Waratahs outside of the Moore Park precinct.

Maybe less people would go to certain games at ANZ, maybe the same would go, maybe more would go - I don't know the answer, but neither I suspect do the Waratahs. But the available evidence suggests that people will still go.
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Quick Hands said:
We are in agreement.:)

This tends to prove that people will go to watch the Waratahs at stadia other than Alliance - which is not what Roger Davis would have us all believe. His proposition even on the information that you provide here is clearly false.

But do people who say that they hate Homebush still go to the games? Certainly some don't, probably some do and maybe some different fans who wouldn't go to Alliance certainly do.

For an organisation which says that it plays for the whole of NSW, the stated position of their chairman is quite odd to say the least (not to mention being incorrect).

I suspect that Roger Davis serves as the perfect example of why rugby in 2016 doesn't have as big a presence in western Sydney as it should. He sees the game as being one for the north and east and is happy to ignore evidence to the contrary - assuming that he even looked at any evidence before opening his mouth.
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We agree insofar as the Waratahs have a problem, but not as to whether moving them west would obviously be of benefit.
You have a strange way of interpreting data if you think that lot proves your point.
Overall crowds at both are falling, so how does comparing 6 year old data at one (ANZ) to current data at another (Allianz) make any case for playing all, or some games at one place or other. Of course people will watch at either place (that's not even an argument, but a fundamental truth). The real issue is getting fans back at all, not where to plonk them.
 
Quick Hands

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
cyclopath said:
We agree insofar as the Waratahs have a problem, but not as to whether moving them west would obviously be of benefit.
You have a strange way of interpreting data if you think that lot proves your point.
Overall crowds at both are falling, so how does comparing 6 year old data at one (ANZ) to current data at another (Allianz) make any case for playing all, or some games at one place or other. Of course people will watch at either place (that's not even an argument, but a fundamental truth). The real issue is getting fans back at all, not where to plonk them.
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If you note post #1521, you'll see that I have provided 7 pieces of data over a 5 year period.

I actually think that you don't even understand what my point of view was in the first place, so I'll summarise:

The best option for the Waratahs was an Alliance rebuild with a brand new stadium - it would have meant pretty much all major rugby games could have been played at a brand new stadium.

The Chairman of the Waratahs in opposing the rebuild asserted that having to leave Moore Park for 2 or 3 seasons would be a disaster because in his view no one would watch the Waratahs anywhere else.

It was this assertation that I was disputing, as the evidence is that people do and have gone to watch the Waratahs at other venues. I have provided statistics which support the view that people to go to other places in reasonable numbers to watch the team. (In fact there is no apparent decline in crowds)

I have never said that the Waratahs should move permanently to Homebush at any time - I've just pointed out that people will go there to watch the team.

I actually prefer Alliance, but I go to both.

I'm not sure if you are deliberately trying to be obtuse or you misunderstand what I have been saying.
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Quick Hands said:
If you note post #1521, you'll see that I have provided 7 pieces of data over a 5 year period.

I actually think that you don't even understand what my point of view was in the first place, so I'll summarise:

The best option for the Waratahs was an Alliance rebuild with a brand new stadium - it would have meant pretty much all major rugby games could have been played at a brand new stadium.

The Chairman of the Waratahs in opposing the rebuild asserted that having to leave Moore Park for 2 or 3 seasons would be a disaster because in his view no one would watch the Waratahs anywhere else.

It was this assertation that I was disputing, as the evidence is that people do and have gone to watch the Waratahs at other venues. I have provided statistics which support the view that people to go to other places in reasonable numbers to watch the team. (In fact there is no apparent decline in crowds)

I have never said that the Waratahs should move permanently to Homebush at any time - I've just pointed out that people will go there to watch the team.

I actually prefer Alliance, but I go to both.

I'm not sure if you are deliberately trying to be obtuse or you misunderstand what I have been saying.
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Thanks for the condescension, but I do understand your point, I just felt you were making it poorly.
 
M

Moono75

Guest
A couple of observations of my own;

In a shock development the Warratahs will be ditching Moore Park and moving West......this week in fact!
They are leaving Allianz and ANZ to play in a newly re-modelled stadium accepting a new commercial arrangement delivering no gate receipts. Access for fans from North, South, East and West Sydney is being described as "shitty" at best, long delays are expected.
Warratah fan support is looking to be at an all time low.

.....welcome to Perth...have a nice stay :)
 
Quick Hands

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Michael Ala'aatoa would come in handy at this point. Pity those who decide these matters didn't think he was needed at the Waratahs.
 
Groucho

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Moono74 said:
A couple of observations of my own;

In a shock development the Warratahs will be ditching Moore Park and moving West..this week in fact!
They are leaving Allianz and ANZ to play in a newly re-modelled stadium accepting a new commercial arrangement delivering no gate receipts. Access for fans from North, South, East and West Sydney is being described as "shitty" at best, long delays are expected.
Warratah fan support is looking to be at an all time low.

...welcome to Perth.have a nice stay :)
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It's Perrth.
 
Sauron

Sauron

Larry Dwyer (12)
Quick Hands said:
Michael Ala'aatoa would come in handy at this point. Pity those who decide these matters didn't think he was needed at the Waratahs.
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What happened to the Kiwi beefcake?

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