Waratahs 2018

[TOCC]

Why would clubs trust the ARU after everything they have displayed over the past 12 months.... there’s cooperation and then there’s placing your fate into the hands of a governing body who have acted in a deceitful, wasteful and arrogant way over recent history..

A centralised body run by a objectively driven organisation free of nepotism and parochialism would certainly benefit Australian Rugby. Unfortunately such an organisation doesn’t exist. It’s the blind leading the blind currently.


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[lou75]

Let the Waratahs and Reds sign over their IP to RA first and see how that all works in the centralised model

 

[amirite]

It's not even just RA, I'm pretty sure only NZ and Ireland have central contracting in the way that was mentioned (maybe Scotland too?).

Whilst it's popular to pretend lack of centralisation is due to RA incompetence, the reality is centralisation of anything is a fucking hard sell. Look at all the compromises to pass US healthcare if you want an example.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

^^^^Both going reasonably well at the moment.
We mindlessly copy many things from the NZRU but not this.
The state of the Tahs and their resistance to the concept (assuming that is what Cyclo was hinting at) is the best argument in its favour.

 

[amirite]

^^^^Both going reasonably well at the moment.
We mindlessly copy many things from the NZRU but not this.
The state of the Tahs and their resistance to the concept (assuming that is what Cyclo was hinting at) is the best argument in its favour.

Ireland have had the central contracting for a long time and have been a mid-lower tier 1 nation for much of it, but I take your point.

I guess my point of focus is centralisation is difficult. Plus, England have the most decentralised system in rugby, and they go okay (in junior development and seniors).

The England example doesn't really prove anything other than centralisation isn't a necessity for success, and yes it would be ideal to have it (particular with our more geographically focused population and smaller talent pool).

 

[TOCC]

Plus, England have the most decentralised system in rugby, and they go okay (in junior development and seniors).

The England example doesn't really prove anything other than centralisation isn't a necessity for success, and yes it would be ideal to have it (particular with our more geographically focused population and smaller talent pool).

I would have thought France would be considerably more decentralised then England, regardless both represent the two largest and wealthiest playing nations in the world, and despite the occasional period of success they have both underperformed below their potential the past 20 years.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The England example doesn't really prove anything other than centralisation isn't a necessity for success, and yes it would be ideal to have it (particular with our more geographically focused population and smaller talent pool).

And as TOCC says they really struggled with it for a long time - I suppose they say it only took them 8 years to win RWC after professionalism came in. England should be permanently successful because they have massive numbers crammed in a small area and their contracting system is almost irrelevant to that. We are almost precisely the opposite and NZ is also relatively sparsely populated. The French: who would know what they're up to at any given moment.

 

[lou75]

Sportsbet has Tahs as favourite at 2.40 to win the Aussie conference - go Tahs

 

[jimmydubs]

Sportsbet has Tahs as favourite at 2.40 to win the Aussie conference - go Tahs

Wow. Do they have an 'anyone but the tahs'? Should be at $1.50-1.60 going by the 2.40.
I'd put some green on that. Better than putting any hard earned anywhere near the reds this season

 

[TOCC]

Tahs have a championship spine of players in key positions. And the quality of the players elsewhere should be sufficient enough to provide the championship players like Folau and Foley enough ball to guide the team.

-Reds are a basket case
-Rebels have some extraordinary depth but not in the right positions
-Brumbies will be very strong contenders, they have quality players across the whole team, and the return of Pocock and Lealifano.


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[amirite]

And as TOCC says they really struggled with it for a long time - I suppose they say it only took them 8 years to win RWC after professionalism came in. England should be permanently successful because they have massive numbers crammed in a small area and their contracting system is almost irrelevant to that. We are almost precisely the opposite and NZ is also relatively sparsely populated. The French: who would know what they're up to at any given moment.

I'm not debating against centralisation, I'm just saying that firstly it's difficult and secondly it's not a prerequisite for success.

I don't agree NZ is sparsely populated in a rugby sense, considering the majority of their North Island NPC games don't necessitate an overnight trip (which make up over 2/3 of the comp).

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I'm not debating against centralisation, I'm just saying that firstly it's difficult and secondly it's not a prerequisite for success.

I don't agree NZ is sparsely populated in a rugby sense, considering the majority of their North Island NPC games don't necessitate an overnight trip (which make up over 2/3 of the comp).

Many of them are long hauls if you don't stay overnight. NZ is 270,000 sq km. England is 130,000. Twice the size 1/13th the population with a huge chasm in the middle. That's relative sparsity.

 

[amirite]

Many of them are long hauls if you don't stay overnight. NZ is 270,000 sq km. England is 130,000. Twice the size 1/13th the population with a huge chasm in the middle. That's relative sparsity.

Yes, but the North Island where over 70% of the teams are is 113,000km and is very commutable (with the most distant North Island sides being an 11hr train ride and obviously requiring a flight). I'll also add that close to 80% of the population live on this island.

 

[cyclopath]

^^^^Both going reasonably well at the moment.
We mindlessly copy many things from the NZRU but not this.
The state of the Tahs and their resistance to the concept (assuming that is what Cyclo was hinting at) is the best argument in its favour.

It wasn’t just the Tahs. Think north and south of Sydney as well.


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[cyclopath]

I think a few of you have misinterpreted my original post. I wasn’t arguing that centralisation of contracting , coaching and skills development was a necessity, only that moves had been made to try to get towards it, most likely based on the success in NZ. I don’t think using England or France as examples why not to do it is relevant. The structure of rugby in both countries is quite different to here with clubs having far more money and power. Our system is closer to NZ in size etc than those examples.
I think we would be better with a model more like NZ than England or France given our funding models (more top down). I was only pointing out that it had been looked at, and state / provincial unions nixed it. Obviously, it would require a national body with more nous than the one we currently have.


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[wamberal]

Or more power. Or more money. That is our problem, we are struggling on all fronts.

 

[Highlander35]

Fantastic to see the Tahs reclaim young Vic hooker JP Sauni from the grasps of the darkness.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Or more power. Or more money. That is our problem, we are struggling on all fronts.

Wamberal, the Tahs, Reds, Brumbies and Rebels only survive because of the money they are given by the national body. If RA said OK we are moving to central contracting they could do nothing about it. RA won't say it because NSW & Redsget whatever they want and they don't want it. Brumbies probably think they benefit from its absence in that they back their talent identification and potential maximisation. RA has the power because they have the money (what there is of it) what they lack is the will because of the blind self interest their members have in non-centralised administration.

 

[Green grass]

Hard to see NSW winning a game this year.

 

[Green grass]

Sorry I take that back, we will beat Qld.