Waratahs vs Force - Super Rugby R7 2013 - Sunday 31st March

[Hugh Jarse]

And the pre-match games of minis (7s and 9s yesterday). I was involved in one of the teams and the boys loved it. Great touch from Cheika, who wandered casually over as the Waratahs were getting ready for their warm up and had a little chat to the boys.

I should have read the programme at the game.

Halftime game was the NSW womens 7's squad preparing for next months National Women's Sevens Championships.

Pre Game Under 9's was Manly vs Hornsby, and Under 7's was Hunters Hill and Lindfield.
The Guard of Honour was Wakehurst and Allambie Heights.

I think that the latter club is in its first year of resurgence. Awesome experience for all these young'uns.

 

[Froggy]

The idea of having the two packs still is good in theory, but if you watch any S15 game the packs are still trying to anticipate the 'set'. If you get it wrong, you cop the penalty, but if you wait, the side that anticipates right gets the advantage at the hit. Watch the engagements closely, that us clearly what's happening.

I still maintain the only way to really eliminate the problem is to eliminate the hit. To do that is simple, you get the front rows to engage on their own, then once they're set, you bring the 2nds in, then the back row. When the ball comes in, you can push and she's on. As long as you have a hit, the side that can anticipate that hit will get an advantage, and so you will have sides trying to anticipate it.

The silliest part now is you will often see both packs go early, and the ref trying to pick which side he's going to penalise.

 

[Pfitzy]

Froggy - that is one of the changes in trial now. Don't know where exactly but it's the best thing for all levels of rugby.

 

[Stands]

Two weeks in a row about 15,000 on a sunny Sunday afternoon. If I could offer a couple of suggestions to Waratahs marketing types:

Compared to the Souths v Bulldogs crowd of 51,000 it was a disgrace.

 

[Stands]

Not getting all the Izzy love. Sure he made some nice breaks, but he never seems to pass to his support. He'll always try to beat his man one on one and will either lose the ball or be held up. He never bloody passes it.

Me too, sure he must be good but surely there are some better outside backs in NSW union?

And why did Fox cross to him for a half time comment what the hell does this know more than anymore than the other 29 players on the field?

 

[barbarian]

Me too, sure he must be good but surely there are some better outside backs in NSW union?

And why did Fox cross to him for a half time comment what the hell does this know more than anymore than the other 29 players on the field?

Jeez talk about unfounded hate. Fox talk to a different guy every week FFS, it's not some kind of fiendish conspiracy.

And I really rate Folau. He is visibly improving every week. He breaks the first tackle almost every time, he is great to watch. His work under the high ball is second to none.

If he stays in rugby I'd love to see him capped in the 4N or (more likely) the EOYT. He has been a great buy for the Tahs.
.

 

[Scott Allen]

The idea of having the two packs still is good in theory, but if you watch any S15 game the packs are still trying to anticipate the 'set'. If you get it wrong, you cop the penalty, but if you wait, the side that anticipates right gets the advantage at the hit. Watch the engagements closely, that us clearly what's happening.

I still maintain the only way to really eliminate the problem is to eliminate the hit. To do that is simple, you get the front rows to engage on their own, then once they're set, you bring the 2nds in, then the back row. When the ball comes in, you can push and she's on. As long as you have a hit, the side that can anticipate that hit will get an advantage, and so you will have sides trying to anticipate it.

The silliest part now is you will often see both packs go early, and the ref trying to pick which side he's going to penalise.

Agree with you on the elimination of the hit and that's what's coming next year in a global trial - see http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/scrum-talk.4363/page-24 for a discussion on that topic.

 

[Scott Allen]

You may be right, but the new law mentions nothing about the packs being still but being ready. (see below from IRB website) As I've always understood it, the crouch was to obtain good body position and the touch was to establish a safe distance. Once those two things have been established, and both sides are ready - lets's get on with the game.

... and the referees seem to interpret that "ready" means still and stable, which seems reasonable to me. If one pack is still moving around they're clearly not ready.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Jeez talk about unfounded hate. Fox talk to a different guy every week FFS, it's not some kind of fiendish conspiracy.

And I really rate Folau. He is visibly improving every week. He breaks the first tackle almost every time, he is great to watch. His work under the high ball is second to none.

If he stays in rugby I'd love to see him capped in the 4N or (more likely) the EOYT. He has been a great buy for the Tahs.
.

Totally agree re 1st para.
He is developing but there's bits that don't make sense: trying to beat a man on the outside in 2m of space: league should have taught him to teat e sideline like a precipice as Rex used to say. Slightly better than Average kicker: this is not going to improve. 2 or 3 turnovers in the tackle when from league his ball security should be better, arguably - though I have heard it said that no stripping rule has reduced this.
These are not errors that a top class player makes. Thus he is a work in progress which means
Undecided re 3rd para.


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[199madmave]

Two weeks in a row about 15,000 on a sunny Sunday afternoon. If I could offer a couple of suggestions to Waratahs marketing types:




My suggestion would be sort out the parking fiasco!! There must have been more that 1000 cars trying get out of ONE exit. We sat at a standstill for 45 minutes... did not move one car length trying to leave the car park. We gave up...went to the pub had a steak/salad and bottle of red!!

 

[barbarian]

Totally agree re 1st para.
He is developing but there's bits that don't make sense: trying to beat a man on the outside in 2m of space: league should have taught him to teat e sideline like a precipice as Rex used to say. Slightly better than Average kicker: this is not going to improve. 2 or 3 turnovers in the tackle when from league his ball security should be better, arguably - though I have heard it said that no stripping rule has reduced this.
These are not errors that a top class player makes. Thus he is a work in progress which means
Undecided re 3rd para.

I think the kicking will improve, he has technique but just needs a bit of confidence and awareness.

His work in heavy contact is still a little patchy, and he does lose the ball a little bit at the ruck which is due to two things- running too far/away from support, and presenting the ball too close to the opposition when brought to ground. But I think he will get a lot better here, too. There are already signs he is doing better here.

He has only played 6 top-level games. I reckon he will be a lot better after 12, and after a full season he will be ready for test footy.

But I can certainly understand those that are still undecided.
.

 

[Ruggo]

He is only going to improve his these things in match conditions. Izzy is coming on nicely but he is part of a team developing as well so his personal development will track at the pace of the team. No disrespect to the Tahs but if he were playing in the Reds or Brumbies he would develop quicker as those teams are already comfortable in how they play and the pattern is more routine to them. The Tahs are working towards this under Chieka.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think the kicking will improve, he has technique but just needs a bit of confidence and awareness.

His work in heavy contact is still a little patchy, and he does lose the ball a little bit at the ruck which is due to two things- running too far/away from support, and presenting the ball too close to the opposition when brought to ground. But I think he will get a lot better here, too. There are already signs he is doing better here.

He has only played 6 top-level games. I reckon he will be a lot better after 12, and after a full season he will be ready for test footy.

But I can certainly understand those that are still undecided.
.

Why do you think his kicking will improve?
He's just come from a game where its all they do. The balls are different, I know, but i expected that was one thing he'd have in spades.
He's potentially good enough in other areas for the let down in that area not to matter.
Seems to have a good attitude too - but thats just the vibe - nice to get a superstar who looks like he's part of the team!

 

[Quick Hands]

The idea of having the two packs still is good in theory, but if you watch any S15 game the packs are still trying to anticipate the 'set'. If you get it wrong, you cop the penalty, but if you wait, the side that anticipates right gets the advantage at the hit. Watch the engagements closely, that us clearly what's happening.

I still maintain the only way to really eliminate the problem is to eliminate the hit. To do that is simple, you get the front rows to engage on their own, then once they're set, you bring the 2nds in, then the back row. When the ball comes in, you can push and she's on. As long as you have a hit, the side that can anticipate that hit will get an advantage, and so you will have sides trying to anticipate it.

The silliest part now is you will often see both packs go early, and the ref trying to pick which side he's going to penalise.

Eliminating the hit is the way to go. The big hit is a relatively modern phenomenon - watch a test match from the 60s or 70s.

And the truly exasperating thing about the 'early engagement' free kick is that the non-offending team invariably opt for the scrum option and we go through the whole tortuous process again.

 

[barbarian]

Why do you think his kicking will improve?
He's just come from a game where its all they do. The balls are different, I know, but i expected that was one thing he'd have in spades.
He's potentially good enough in other areas for the let down in that area not to matter.
Seems to have a good attitude too - but thats just the vibe - nice to get a superstar who looks like he's part of the team!

I think his technique and distance was good, just didn't work the angles well enough. AFL kicking is a bit different to rugby- different ball, different aim (distance, not a moving target or static goal). I don't think he'll get to Mogg/Barnes level, but I would hope he would get to Mitchell/Turner levels.
.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

To do that is simple, you get the front rows to engage on their own, then once they're set, you bring the 2nds in, then the back row. When the ball comes in, you can push and she's on. As long as you have a hit, the side that can anticipate that hit will get an advantage, and so you will have sides trying to anticipate it.

Quick Hands I could see this suggestion taking even longer

 

[Stands]

Jeez talk about unfounded hate. Fox talk to a different guy every week FFS, it's not some kind of fiendish conspiracy.

And I really rate Folau. He is visibly improving every week. He breaks the first tackle almost every time, he is great to watch. His work under the high ball is second to none.

If he stays in rugby I'd love to see him capped in the 4N or (more likely) the EOYT. He has been a great buy for the Tahs.
.

Long bow with the unfounded hate!

We sign a player who has played League, AFL and is on a short term contract, we have the biggest player pool in the country and we sign a guy who has potential but only for one year.

Another Rogers, Sailor, Tahu and Tuiqiri.. Do we need these players? Have they helped us get a title?

No wonder our crowd numbers are down. There is no community spirit, we dont support our Shute Shield players by passing them over with imports, what do the players in the Shute Shield think when we pas them over with the likes of Folau, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Mitchell?

 

[Dave Beat]

The Guard of Honour was Wakehurst and Allambie Heights.

I think that the latter club is in its first year of resurgence. Awesome experience for all these young'uns.

HJ, Allambie Jets first year back and the kids loved it

 

[Quick Hands]

. and the referees seem to interpret that "ready" means still and stable, which seems reasonable to me. If one pack is still moving around they're clearly not ready.

I was just trying to be logical and apply the ordinary English meaning to things. To me ready and still aren't synonyms. If I was writing laws and I wanted the packs to be still, I'd use the word still or stationary rather than ready so that things were clear.

 

[qwerty51]

Ben Volavola, Jed Holloway, Michael Hodge, Ollie Atkins were all sleeted from Shute Shield performances. Plenty of others that played in the trials and Junior Tahs.