We need a definition of a poach

[fatprop]

How is James O'Conner a poach?

The kid was born in Qld, did a bit of school there, but was then in Sydney playing for the Parramatta Eels juniors before switching over to rugby union at 15.

He seems to have been all over the place.

My point is, is a poach from birth? schooling? grade rugby? or rep rugby?

 

[formeropenside]

I'd say poaching is from a state schoolboys or age rep side, academy or the Super squad. I'd continue the poach status for 2-3 years post selection for a schoolboys or age team, but if you've been cut by the academy or state squad its not really a poach, if you are genuinely unwanted.

Peter Hewat for instance was (I assume) a Qld schoolboy, but never got a look in for Qld in senior rugby. So he went to NSW, played local club, and got selected for the Tahs. Thats the furthest thing from a poach in my book: Qld had a good long period to decide whether they wanted him, and decided they did not.

I dont count poaching from club rugby as being that bad - the exception being for a former state schoolboy who is within that 2-3 year period.

Thats my view.

 

[Red Beard]

poach 1 (pch)
tr.v. poached, poach·ing, poach·es
To cook in a boiling or simmering liquid: Poach the fish in wine.


I dont suppose this definition is of any use.

 

[Utility Back]

I'd reckon it would have to do with money,
Say he's a qlder, played rugby there and qld want him/want to resign him and the force offer him more money, that there i believe, is a poach. Money is the thieving kit.

If qld didnt want him, then well, it isnt a poach.

 

[fatprop]

I'd reckon it would have to do with money,
Say he's a qlder, played rugby there and qld want him/want to resign him and the force offer him more money, that there i believe, is a poach. Money is the thieving kit.

If qld didnt want him, then well, it isnt a poach.

It could be said, Qld didn't want him enough

 

[cyclopath]

poach 1 (pch)
tr.v. poached, poach·ing, poach·es
To cook in a boiling or simmering liquid: Poach the fish in wine.


I dont suppose this definition is of any use.

Only to Paarlbok, who is the forum authority on fishing, but I reckon he'd cook 'em on a braai!

 

[Biffo]

There is no such thing as poaching. There was in the amateur era (e.g., Des Connor, Greg Davis, Topo Rodriguez, Pato Noriega) but it has gone since professionalism started. The anomolies in the regulations hanging over from amateurism have been removed in the professional era. The regulations are now as clear as could be.

Let's start with some extreme claims of poaching. Simon Shaw was born in Kenya; I have seen claims that he is a poachee. There are ridiculous claims that George Smith was poached from Tonga (his Australian father doesn't count in his parentage, apparently), George Gregan from Zambia (same as Smith re parentage) and that Timana Tahu was poached from NZ (born in Melbourne and never went to UnZid until on a rugby league trip). As you move from the extreme to the moderate, the same logic applies all the way, in gradually lessening intensity. Latest examples: claims that Rocky and O'Connor were poached from Queensland - nonsense! What claim has Queensland have to ownership of either?

In a professional sport with clear rules on eligibility, it is a waste of time (and totally illogical) to be concerned with claims that regional "unions" have a right to a player because of his birth or parentage or any other factor EXCEPT a binding contract in force. When the contract is up, it's up and the player can go where he likes. If a player is at school or in an academy and doesn't have a binding contract, he can go where he likes.

 

[Scarfman]

Greegs's family is from Namibia, aren't they?

I agree that we have to move on a bit from this poaching stuff. If I was a player I would quite like the chance of trying a new place to live. Part of the fun of rugby.

In saying that, we don't want provinces and small countries raped. So some control of the powerful over the weak seems fair.

 

[formeropenside]

There is no such thing as poaching. There was in the amateur era (e.g., Des Connor, Greg Davis, Topo Rodriguez, Pato Noriega) but it has gone since professionalism started. The anomolies in the regulations hanging over from amateurism have been removed in the professional era. The regulations are now as clear as could be.

Let's start with some extreme claims of poaching. Simon Shaw was born in Kenya; I have seen claims that he is a poachee. There are ridiculous claims that George Smith was poached from Tonga (his Australian father doesn't count in his parentage, apparently), George Gregan from Zambia (same as Smith re parentage) and that Timana Tahu was poached from NZ (born in Melbourne and never went to UnZid until on a rugby league trip). As you move from the extreme to the moderate, the same logic applies all the way, in gradually lessening intensity. Latest examples: claims that Rocky and O'Connor were poached from Queensland - nonsense! What claim has Queensland have to ownership of either?

In a professional sport with clear rules on eligibility, it is a waste of time (and totally illogical) to be concerned with claims that regional "unions" have a right to a player because of his birth or parentage or any other factor EXCEPT a binding contract in force. When the contract is up, it's up and the player can go where he likes. If a player is at school or in an academy and doesn't have a binding contract, he can go where he likes.

So why should Qld bother having an academy then, or any local rugby or schoolboy competition? We might as well just poach young NSW-men out of school or other NSW teams. Australian rugby can't afford to have one and half parasitic sides draining off talent from the real rugby nurseries, so if we suddenly had two and half parasites (or three and half with a 5th team) maybe the problem would become more apparent.

 

[Biffo]

From Wikipedia

"Gregan was born in Zambia, of a Zimbabwean mother and an Australian father,[3] coincidentally in the same hospital[4] where Corné Krige, who would grow up to be the South Africa captain during Gregan's Wallabies captaincy, would be born two years later. His family moved to Australia when he was one year old, and he grew up in Canberra where he was educated at St Edmund's College and graduated with a Bachelor of Education (Physical Education) from the University of Canberra."

My understanding is Gregan's father, a doctor, met his mother, a nurse, when both were working in England.

Is that rounds for claiming Gregan is English (conceived there)? :

BTW, I was in Zambia in 1998 and 1999 and I asked many people had they heard of Gregan. None had.

 

[PaarlBok]

Dont think birth place qualify for poaching, after schoolboy level, thats poaching I think. But honestly a professional rugby or sportsman can go where he can earn the most coin. Dont have a problem with that and in SA you cant hold it against a young kid just out of school and he want to make a living where ever. You can have Rattlebones and the Poms can have KP by all means.

 

[Cutter]

If you move due to being offered a contract then that would be a poach. If you go somewhere for opportunity eg Hewat, that isnt a poach, its just leaving somewhere.

As such, the Eels poached O'Connor from Qld and then the Force poached him from Qld again.

Fairbrother is also a poach. Devine going to NZ wasnt a poach because he was looking for opportunity but it was opportunistic of the ABs to select him.

The interesting ones are the like of Vainokolo for England. Apart from having lived there for 3 years (where he was lured by a league contract), he has no link to England and they shouldnt be able to select him. I dont like the residency rules. It should be 5 years.

 

[fatprop]

To me, the NRL has it right, it is where you play your senior footy

 

[Sully]

To me, the NRL has it right, it is where you play your senior footy

or whatever is convenient for them.

 

[Cutter]

To me, the NRL has it right, it is where you play your senior footy

It was right until schoolboys began being signed straight out of school. There is a diffference between "origin" and "poach" anyway. Hewat would rightly qualify for QLD in an origin but its hard to argue NSW poached him.

 

[Lindommer]

How is James O'Conner a poach? The kid was born in Qld, did a bit of school there, but was then in Sydney playing for the Parramatta Eels juniors before switching over to rugby union at 15. He seems to have been all over the place.

Did he ever play for the Eels? My understanding was he was on some sort of scholarship with the carrot of a contract when he turned 18 but a bit of investigation shows he played for Queensland under 16s in 2006. Did he attend any schools other than Nudgee? As far as I can work out he's gone from Queensland to New Zealand back to Queensland.

 

[louie]

theres no wrong with what any club is doing.
they have scouts to do a job. QLD can go anywhere to find their talent. as can any other state. its THEIR problem that players go elsewhere.

 

[RugbyReg]

theres no wrong with what any club is doing.
they have scouts to do a job. QLD can go anywhere to find their talent. as can any other state. its THEIR problem that players go elsewhere.

exactly.

 

[formeropenside]

theres no wrong with what any club is doing.
they have scouts to do a job. QLD can go anywhere to find their talent. as can any other state. its THEIR problem that players go elsewhere.

well yeah, but most players from anywhere but Qld are shit

 

[louie]

theres no wrong with what any club is doing.
they have scouts to do a job. QLD can go anywhere to find their talent. as can any other state. its THEIR problem that players go elsewhere.

well yeah, but most players from anywhere but Qld are shit

so?