Western Force 2017

[farva]

Any rumours on potential coaches?

I hear Rennie is looking for an overseas gig...

 

[RebelYell]

Have heard Blackadder whispers, though apparently the ARU favour a 'Australian coach at all costs' approach

 

[Slim 293]

apparently the ARU favour a 'Australian coach at all costs' approach

That would be disastrous......... Force need the best coach they can get, regardless of nationality.

I imagine the Brumbies would've remained a mid-bottom table team if it wasn't for Jake White fixing up the place.

 

[ChargerWA]

Interesting that Hodgo confirmed in the press today that only 1 Force player is on an ARU top up.

He made comment on the uneven distribution of playing talent in Australia. The Force Captain is now starting to talk about the elephant in the room. I've been screaming about it for 2 years now but no one has taken me seriously.

 

[Joeleee]

Interesting that Hodgo confirmed in the press today that only 1 Force player is on an ARU top up.

He made comment on the uneven distribution of playing talent in Australia. The Force Captain is now starting to talk about the elephant in the room. I've been screaming about it for 2 years now but no one has taken me seriously.

Warning: pure speculation ahead.

I imagine that for most players good enough to get an ARU top-up, going to the Force will be a pay cut (or at least a sideways pay movement, which considering the long move might be seen as a negative). Even if the club can pay them more, their opportunity for 3rd party sponsorships etc. would be greatly diminished. I think there are maybe a few of options to fix this:

• Add a "hardship payment" to the ARU top-up, although this would cost the ARU money they may not have
• Increase the Force salary cap ( I like this, but could they afford more if they got it?)
• Work on adding intangibles to the Force: better coaches, better recruitment process, a one-week camp per year with the Wallabies coaches, something

I don't think forcing players to go West for the same coin and same package they would be offered now is really the answer, because I think for many, the choice is between an East Coast team, or overseas. I think something has to be done to make the Force a more attractive option, but I'm not sure the ARU would be willing to pay for it.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Warning: pure speculation ahead.

I imagine that for most players good enough to get an ARU top-up, going to the Force will be a pay cut (or at least a sideways pay movement, which considering the long move might be seen as a negative). Even if the club can pay them more, their opportunity for 3rd party sponsorships etc. would be greatly diminished. I think there are maybe a few of options to fix this:

• Add a "hardship payment" to the ARU top-up, although this would cost the ARU money they may not have
• Increase the Force salary cap ( I like this, but could they afford more if they got it?)
• Work on adding intangibles to the Force: better coaches, better recruitment process, a one-week camp per year with the Wallabies coaches, something

I don't think forcing players to go West for the same coin and same package they would be offered now is really the answer, because I think for many, the choice is between an East Coast team, or overseas. I think something has to be done to make the Force a more attractive option, but I'm not sure the ARU would be willing to pay for it.

Having a minimum number of ARU topups per side (and therefore a maximum) or a hard ARU inclusive salary cap could also force Wallabies to be more equally distributed.

RUPA wouldn't let it happen though I'd imagine
It

 

[Braveheart81]

Why would the ARU want it to happen though. It wants as few impediments as possible to be able to keep the key Wallabies in Australia.

They would never push a model that said to their key players that the only way we can pay you more money is to go and play for a different team.

 

[AussieDominance]

I think it would be a good idea to give the Force a little extra lee way with the salary cap if they can afford it.

Just make sure they spend it on keeping players they are developing or Australian players though not foreign marquee players!

 

[Braveheart81]

My take would be to give them 10% extra on every contract so it is evenly dispersed.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

I am not sure how you can make that work practically though.

 

[Strewthcobber]

My take would be to give them 10% extra on every contract so it is evenly dispersed.

for most though, especially the elite guys who would make a big difference, playing just 2 Wallaby games would translate into an extra 10%.

So if you reduce your chance of playing in gold by moving west, then at some point it's not worth it.

 

[Braveheart81]

for most though, especially the elite guys who would make a big difference, playing just 2 Wallaby games would translate into an extra 10%.

So if you reduce your chance of playing in gold by moving west, then at some point it's not worth it.

It's probably not aimed at that point. The top players who are in demand everywhere will play where they want to live unless someone makes them a really compelling offer.

The extra 10% (maybe it needs to be a bit higher) is like the cost of living allowance in AFL. It's hopefully just the additional kicker a player needs to make it an equal choice as to whether they relocate to Perth compared to another team.

Up to now the Force probably have to pay the same player more dollars to play for them which effectively leaves them with a lower quality squad overall.

 

[Wendell]

To start with the Force need to stop recruiting average players from Sth Africa. The Force joined the Comp in 2006 to help improve depth and provide opportunities for Australian players. Marcel Brache - there would be 10 wingers minimum playing club rugby who are better then him. We are currently in a position where the Wallabies are short on wingers. Players like Brache do not help the situation. Same with Stander - plenty of quality back rowers in club land who are better then him. How he gets selected ahead of Cottrell is dumb founding. Alby Matthewson - a senior player who has a heart the size of a pea. Hates contact and avoids tackling at all costs. Not a great example. Peter Grant - what does he offer? The bloke is past it. While they are worried about signing Grant they let their next big thing and 5/8 for the next 10 years go to the capital. Unbelievable! The force are better off signing a squad of keen, good young Australian eligible players who want the opportunity. Players that will buy into life in WA and stay there for the next 5-10 years. Start producing your own players instead of plugging holes with average Overseas options. It will take time and there will be some pain but given time the clubs fortunes will change. Look at what the Brumbies did with Jake at the end of 2011. He recruited a squad of unknown club players like Fardy, Kuridrani, Tomane, Carter, Mogg and White. Things turned pretty quickly. The same with the coaches - why do they have or are allowed to have 2 foreign assistant coaches? How is that developing our coaches in Aust? Don't tell me there are not equally as good coaches in Aus. And your next coach - why pick some high profile NZ coach? You have done that before and it ended in tears. Pick a young up and coming coach that will clean the joint out and start again. Take a risk, Leinster did that a few years ago with the Randwick coach (that's right an Aus club coach being appointed to Ireland's biggest club) and he turned out OK...
Put the broom through the joint and start again.

 

[AussieDominance]

Agree wholeheartedly with the South African sentiment.

It is ironic though that Guy Millar has signed or is close to signing for a club closer to his traditional home (Sydney) than Perth and it's in NZ.

Your right about backing Australian players but as someone mentioned before if they are the best players in Australian Rugby they generally chose where they want to play and it's a pity most come from NSW & QLD.

A big emphasis on local products has been apparent which is good and hopefully long may it continue.

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't think Brache is the problem at the Force. It's the fact that he generally is in the best XV and always in the 23.

I think Matthewson is getting a bit past it and it is time for the Force to move on but when they won 9 matches in 2014, he was very close to being the Force's best. Impossible to reasonably argue he hasn't been a good recruit for the Force.

The Force are providing contracts for more and more local players every year. I think there are 7 WA locals in the squad this year.

I don't think turfing out all the experience and going back to the drawing board is a realistic option though. If you have a season where you lose every game by 50 because the whole squad are inexperienced youngsters you could cause long-lasting damage to the club.

 

[D-Box]

Australian Rugby Union and Western Force Seal Alliance Agreement - See more at: https://www.westernforce.com.au/art...-seal-alliance-agreement#sthash.Rht330O0.dpuf

Key Quotes

Under the agreement the ARU will integrate the professional Rugby program of the Western Force into the High Performance Unit of the ARU

Under the alliance Western Force players and professional Rugby staff will become ARU employees.

The RugbyWA board will continue to be responsible for the community game in Western Australia and the pathway through to professional rugby through its 'Future Force' program.

Is there are plan to roll it out to other Super Clubs??

ARU CEO Bill Pulver said: “RugbyWA and the Western Force are not alone in their challenges to remain viable as a professional sports entity in Australia.


“Numerous teams across several codes are facing the same economic environment across professional sport and the ARU has been looking at ways to create a more efficient and effective way to run our Super Rugby businesses.

“The ARU and RugbyWA have collectively created a model which we believe will be more sustainable for our Super Rugby organisations in Australia.

Specific Questions still be be aswered regarding the Force

Coaching Set up next year? - While Foely remains I would think that there may be some significant changes in the assistant coaches and also the Performace Staff. The Wallabies have a performance set up (S&C, Video Analysis etc that are cold utilised more effectively by having them directly working with a team year long rather than monitoring players for the majority of the year. Moving forward if this is the model the ARU wants to roll out more broadly it will allow for consistent conditioning across all teams with a focus of the wallabies. I also think that the ARU will want to be putting in development coaches into the assistant coach positions rather than having South Africans in there. Could there be more input from the ARU emplyed coaches?

Will it improve recruitment? If the ARU is in charge we now have the same people negotiating Wallaby Top ups and standard contracts. Could we see players such as Kepu being told you can have a premium on you Wallaby contract if you head west?

 

[Melchior]

To start with the Force need to stop recruiting average players from Sth Africa. The Force joined the Comp in 2006 to help improve depth and provide opportunities for Australian players. Marcel Brache - there would be 10 wingers minimum playing club rugby who are better then him. We are currently in a position where the Wallabies are short on wingers. Players like Brache do not help the situation. Same with Stander - plenty of quality back rowers in club land who are better then him. How he gets selected ahead of Cottrell is dumb founding. Alby Matthewson - a senior player who has a heart the size of a pea. Hates contact and avoids tackling at all costs. Not a great example. Peter Grant - what does he offer? The bloke is past it. While they are worried about signing Grant they let their next big thing and 5/8 for the next 10 years go to the capital. Unbelievable! The force are better off signing a squad of keen, good young Australian eligible players who want the opportunity. Players that will buy into life in WA and stay there for the next 5-10 years. Start producing your own players instead of plugging holes with average Overseas options. It will take time and there will be some pain but given time the clubs fortunes will change. Look at what the Brumbies did with Jake at the end of 2011. He recruited a squad of unknown club players like Fardy, Kuridrani, Tomane, Carter, Mogg and White. Things turned pretty quickly. The same with the coaches - why do they have or are allowed to have 2 foreign assistant coaches? How is that developing our coaches in Aust? Don't tell me there are not equally as good coaches in Aus. And your next coach - why pick some high profile NZ coach? You have done that before and it ended in tears. Pick a young up and coming coach that will clean the joint out and start again. Take a risk, Leinster did that a few years ago with the Randwick coach (that's right an Aus club coach being appointed to Ireland's biggest club) and he turned out OK.
Put the broom through the joint and start again.

Tell that to tah coach Gibson. if there are 10 blokes minimum then surely he wouldn't need Guildford or to go cap in hand to cheika to ask for Nayavoro back from Edinburgh.

I think the force would should continue to recruit ZA's. If players are any decent like Jones and Inman they end up back east. It just a question of quality. Quality is a question of $$ which hopefully the new structure with the ARU may alleviate.

 

[TOCC]

Nothing wrong with recruiting South Africans, just beed to identify and recruit the right ones.

 

[farva]

The Force have some decent local talent on their books. But these guys are young. Its really only DHP who has reached a leadership position. The likes of Mathewson is needed for that reason.
Grant was really there for his experience for a young Luke Burton to learn from, with the intent that Jono Lance would be the main flyhalf. Injury has robbed us of that.
Lacey is the replacement for Brache. I think Brache was a squad filler when he came over. He has played his heart out but he isnt a player that is of the standard we need.
Stander would become Wallaby qualified at the end of this year wouldn't he? While he might not be of Wallaby quality having him now Australian is a positive.

The problem with the Force is that with a losing culture, they lose attractiveness. Its a catch 22. Young players come from the east, establish themselves after a couple of seasons and then head back east. That will start to change with more WA products entering the system but it will take time for WA to lose reliance on the east. What is best right now is to develop strategies to make the Force more attractive for players, and that means getting a high level coach. If a young guy reckons he has a better chance of making the Wallabies by staying in Perth than by moving east, which will happen if we get quality coaches and mentors in place, then they will stay.

 

[Braveheart81]

Brache has played well enough to keep Masirewa out of the starting side most of the time and Nikoro out altogether (or is he injured). The problem is the other guys competing for the position aren't better than Brache.

Lacey should be a very good player given time.