Where to for Super Rugby?

[Dctarget]

The other day at a pub, my mate was cheering on a sports game on his phone. Gesticulating wildly and shouting, looked elated when they won. I asked what footy game it was, turns out he was watching "his" team in Overwatch championships. Fair play, not any more nerdy than me watching 5 games of rugby on a Saturday.

 

[Adam84]

Reeeally. Is that matched across the world? Is it an online 21st century thing where all our little fat kids are getting into e-sports or Australia just cooked?

all major codes inflate their participation clinics by including ‘sample clinics’ and one-off attendances as a measure of what is considered an active player. But at it’s core the playing numbers in recurring games have declined relative to population growth in most core markers. Not just rugby, but NRL and AFL have experienced this also.

Without 7s, sample clinics and women’s, rugby would have had significant declines in the past 10 years. In reality the female participation is the key driver of growth in all the major codes. Which doesn’t help the male representative teams.

 

[Dan54]

If you remove the gimmick figures and creative accounting from sporting participation figures, all the major contact sports in Australia are declining or plateauing, even with domestic population growth.

I actually believe that is in NZ too Adam, and probably all round the world.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

all major codes inflate their participation clinics by including ‘sample clinics’ and one-off attendances as a measure of what is considered an active player. But at it’s core the playing numbers in recurring games have declined relative to population growth in most core markers. Not just rugby, but NRL and AFL have experienced this also.

Without 7s, sample clinics and women’s, rugby would have had significant declines in the past 10 years. In reality the female participation is the key driver of growth in all the major codes. Which doesn’t help the male representative teams.

It is about market share - ie would suggest for pro men’s game rugby lost fair chunk of market share to rival footy codes

 

[hoggy]

It is about market share - ie would suggest for pro men’s game rugby lost fair chunk of market share to rival footy codes

Clearly rugby has lost a good % of market share to the other codes. But it is the reluctance to accept some of the basic facts about why we have lost that market share that is so frustrating.

The one gold medal rugby gets in this country is for its ability to make excuses for why it cannot do anything about it.

 

[Rebels3]

Apparently Thorne and the other QLD hierarchy have proposed to RA going to a champions cup and challenge cup style competition including Japanese teams from next year. This is from Wayne Smiths most recent article.

Smith states that this has seen to be the end goal, but for it to be fast tracked for 2022

 

[hoggy]

Apparently Thorne and the other QLD hierarchy have proposed to RA going to a champions cup and challenge cup style competition including Japanese teams from next year. This is from Wayne Smiths most recent article.

Smith states that this has seen to be the end goal, but for it to be fast tracked for 2022

But isn't that what most of us are proposing, Domestic competition underpinned by a champions/challenge cup format.

With only 5 teams we just don't have enough ( at a minimum you need 6, ideally 8) to run a domestic competition of any great length.
There seems to be very little talk of the Drua being based out of Sydney, i'm genuinely not sure whether this is solely due to RA finances, but even with PE there doesn't seem any chatter or desire to make this an option, even twiggy seems quite, not saying he should be out every day make press statements. But you would have thought a couple of press release to show his preference.

 

[Rebels3]

But isn't that what most of us are proposing, Domestic competition underpinned by a champions/challenge cup format.

With only 5 teams we just don't have enough ( at a minimum you need 6, ideally 8) to run a domestic competition of any great length.
There seems to be very little talk of the Drua being based out of Sydney, i'm genuinely not sure whether this is solely due to RA finances, but even with PE there doesn't seem any chatter or desire to make this an option, even twiggy seems quite, not saying he should be out every day make press statements. But you would have thought a couple of press release to show his preference.

Yep, a lot of people want this format. As for the number of domestic teams I am yet to hear a logical argument why 5 (potentially 6) teams won’t work apart from ‘just cause…’. It worked brilliantly this year, maybe add Fiji (only if it’s from Fiji). At the end of the day if you have a domestic comp with limited numbers it’s still only going to make up 50%-60% of your fixtures for the year as you’ll consistently be playing other teams in the other comps. It’ll still make up 8/16 games a year.

In Super Rugby in 2019 you only played your own countries teams twice in a year, under a domestic format it would be exactly the same, just like it was this year. Unless someone to explain with some reasoned logic what the drastic difference is, then I am all ears.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Apparently Thorne and the other QLD hierarchy have proposed to RA going to a champions cup and challenge cup style competition including Japanese teams from next year. This is from Wayne Smiths most recent article.

Smith states that this has seen to be the end goal, but for it to be fast tracked for 2022

Another twist on this could be to look to involve 4 of the Japanese teams and run something akin to how the 7s WS is run. Four pools of 4 and teams qualifying for the Cup/Shield/Plate and Bowl dependent on performance. Means most teams will get at least 4 games.

 

[hoggy]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...about-the-2023-world-cup-20210614-p580ug.html

It looks like Super rugby version 2, lots of how/why. Has anyone talked to the Japanese, Is this the end goal. Who's funding the Island teams. Yes it should be debated but surely a domestic base must be non-negotiable.

 

[Rebels3]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...about-the-2023-world-cup-20210614-p580ug.html

It looks like Super rugby version 2, lots of how/why. Has anyone talked to the Japanese, Is this the end goal. Who's funding the Island teams. Yes it should be debated but surely a domestic base must be non-negotiable.

The incoming Top League chairman spoke about it a week ago

This from an article

~ Top League chairman Osamu Ota revealed on Tuesday evening that talks were under way between the JRFU, New Zealand Rugby and Rugby Australia about a blockbuster cross-border competition that will have the cash-strapped Kiwi Super Rugby clubs licking their lips.

Ota, who will oversee the Top League's transition to a professional competition in 2022, said Japan was right behind the concept.

"We haven't got any details about this topic yet, but for sure the discussions are under way as to the cross-border competition," Ota told reporters through an interpreter.

"If there is such a competition we would love to participate in it.

"But... lots of discussions will be needed. And I can also say that the JRFU have been in conversations with many other unions, including New Zealand Rugby and also Australian rugby. Once everything has been fixed we'll make an announcement as soon as possible.

"I personally would look forward to that opportunity coming in the near future. We'd love to participate in such a competition." ~

 

[Rugbynutter39]

P

The incoming Top League chairman spoke about it a week ago

This from an article

~ Top League chairman Osamu Ota revealed on Tuesday evening that talks were under way between the JRFU, New Zealand Rugby and Rugby Australia about a blockbuster cross-border competition that will have the cash-strapped Kiwi Super Rugby clubs licking their lips.

Ota, who will oversee the Top League's transition to a professional competition in 2022, said Japan was right behind the concept.

"We haven't got any details about this topic yet, but for sure the discussions are under way as to the cross-border competition," Ota told reporters through an interpreter.

"If there is such a competition we would love to participate in it.

"But. lots of discussions will be needed. And I can also say that the JRFU have been in conversations with many other unions, including New Zealand Rugby and also Australian rugby. Once everything has been fixed we'll make an announcement as soon as possible.

"I personally would look forward to that opportunity coming in the near future. We'd love to participate in such a competition." ~

maybe this is the solution as by involving Japanese sides yes maybe we could have a challenge cup and plate comp.
top 5 sides of kiwi conference (MP (Moana Pasifika) and drua plus 5 kiwi sides) go into challenge cup, with say top 3 sides from oz conference and say top 2 from Japan conference. All the rest go into a plate. Thorn might be onto something as give us other teams more our standard to play with for bottom performers.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...about-the-2023-world-cup-20210614-p580ug.html

It looks like Super rugby version 2, lots of how/why. Has anyone talked to the Japanese, Is this the end goal. Who's funding the Island teams. Yes it should be debated but surely a domestic base must be non-negotiable.

Nah. It will be some form of Cup comp. The structure and teams for the new pro league should be announced late this month/early next month.

 

[hoggy]

Nah. It will be some form of Cup comp. The structure and teams for the new pro league should be announced late this month/early next month.

So what your saying is we shouldn't have a domestic base, we sign upto a pro league with possible Japanese inclusion somehow, and with 2 pacific teams (yet 20yrs of Super rugby, not one Pacific Island team was considered sustainable)

This being organised by 2 unions pretty much close to skint, with a track record of????

Yet considering all this, the only known fact is domestic competitions work, yet that is the one thing they are not going to do.

 

[Adam84]

So what your saying is we shouldn't have a domestic base, we sign upto a pro league with possible Japanese inclusion somehow, and with 2 pacific teams (yet 20yrs of Super rugby, not one Pacific Island team was considered sustainable)

This being organised by 2 unions pretty much close to skint, with a track record of????

Yet considering all this, the only known fact is domestic competitions work, yet that is the one thing they are not going to do.

What those at the QRU have proposed is a domestic tournament, followed by a champions league. Personally I think that's the best of both worlds.

 

[Adam84]

Also if MP (Moana Pasifika) and Drua are included, it stands that one of those should go in the Kiwi and Oz tournament's respectively. This would provide 3 domestic games each weekend, or 6 across both tournaments up from 4 currently. Having a team playing a bye round each week was wasted resource. Scrap the Bye round altogether and instead have a short break between the domestic tournaments and the champions league tournament.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

So what your saying is we shouldn't have a domestic base, we sign upto a pro league with possible Japanese inclusion somehow, and with 2 pacific teams (yet 20yrs of Super rugby, not one Pacific Island team was considered sustainable)

This being organised by 2 unions pretty much close to skint, with a track record of????

Yet considering all this, the only known fact is domestic competitions work, yet that is the one thing they are not going to do.

I was ruling out a rehash of the previous Super Rugby format. A Cup comp. would run alongside Super Rugby Au not in place of it. It would be similar to Europe with domestic leagues and the Champions/Challenge Cups as a bonus.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

What those at the QRU have proposed is a domestic tournament, followed by a champions league. Personally I think that's the best of both worlds.

Which is exactly what I was alluding to any such structure being a Cup comp.

 

[half]

Hoggy

I actually feel sad right now and have no way of taking out my frustrations.

You are aware I have been calling for a National domestic competition, well since the late 90's. Many even on this site now agree has taken a while.

But the understanding as to why and the deep within the soul understanding is still lacking.

I have posted a couple of your posts below. After the post I will share what has caused this post with a cry from me for Gods sake just look and analysis with a dispassionate view and look at what works.

Clearly rugby has lost a good % of market share to the other codes. But it is the reluctance to accept some of the basic facts about why we have lost that market share that is so frustrating.

The one gold medal rugby gets in this country is for its ability to make excuses for why it cannot do anything about it.

So what your saying is we shouldn't have a domestic base, we sign upto a pro league with possible Japanese inclusion somehow, and with 2 pacific teams (yet 20yrs of Super rugby, not one Pacific Island team was considered sustainable)

This being organised by 2 unions pretty much close to skint, with a track record of????

Yet considering all this, the only known fact is domestic competitions work, yet that is the one thing they are not going to do.

Hoggy, and to others let me start this by saying.

Super Rugby outrates the A-League
Super Rugby gets bigger crowds than the A-League.
Super Rugby has a longer traditional than the A-Laegue.

This is what having a Local Domestic Competition provides

Now for the bitter part given the above crowds and ratings, reports in Fairfax are saying.

Ten has signed a 300 million deal with soccer.

200 million over 5 years for the A & W league

100 million for their internationals and their FFA Cup.

Plus TEN will run pre game shows and on TEN have at least one Panel discussion show.

Today I read with even more sadness the answer may lie in the third rebirth of the Nobody Really Cares competition and I look to the heavens and say why lord did you give us these admins...

 

[half]

^^^^^^

Its worst than the post above. The 100 million part of the deal is for only three and a half years or say 30 million per year when added to the 40 million per year for the A & W leagues thats 70 million per year and we outrate them. REports are also saying they could add some overseas sales as well.

This is a tweet detailing the deal and the extend of the broadcast is at the bottom.

REMEMBER yes REMEMBER we were on TEN and were TENs favorite