Where to for Super Rugby?

[Twoilms]

It is really easy to criticise from a position of relative ignorance. None of us knows very much about the politics and financial realities.


Neither does Georgina, by the way. But she has to produce some clickbait. And a bit of ARU-bashing is the way to go, apparently.


The underlying problem is the bloody game itself. League has survived all sorts of ructions, mismanagement, scandals, coups, internecine rivalries. And yet it has survived and prospered. That is because the game itself has always been relatively popular as entertainment.


Our sport, over the 60+ years that I have been following it, playing it, and grieving for it, has been popular for about 15 years of that time, in total.


There's the problem, right there.

You are right, in part. We are ignorant of the internal workings of the ARU, SANZAAR, Fox sports and all the complex internal machinations of the powers that be. You are wrong to think that matters.

Any professional is expected to perform their function, at the very least adequately. No person from the outside of that profession (usually) can comment on how or why a person performs less than competently. They also don't give a shit. If i fail one of my clients they don't give two shits why i failed. I get the flick regardless.

Of course we are all ignorant. We are the consumers not the managers and administrators.

I don't care how or why all the shits fucked up, i just care that it is and that it's someones responsibility. Georgina passed a fairly succinct commentary on the outcomes, not the reasons why rugby is fucked. The fact that the ARU had to bail out club rugby is an outcome not a cause.

And horse shit the sport can't be popular. In every other country in the rugby world its absolutely booming (except perhaps SA for deeply ingrained political reasons). It's growing and spreading further into eastern Europe, and, a little slower, in the Americas.

As consumers we have every right to complain that the product is fucked. That's how shit works.

 

[wamberal]

Horse shit? History tells us that rugby has NEVER been popular in this country, except for relatively brief periods.


That is fact, not horse shit. Very few other countries have TWO home grown and home administered winter footy codes who have historically had the upper hand, and both of which have always put a high premium on the entertainment value of their sport.



Australians have voted with their wallets, year after year after year. The best we have ever been is a strong third in some markets. That was our high point, and it happened when the Super League wars were on in earnest. Those days have gone. We are now a dismal fourth or so.



Face the facts. What happens in other countries is totally irrelevant to our situation when it comes to the relative popularity of sporting codes.


And yes, the product is the problem. The product is the game of rugby as it is played in Australia.

 

[Twoilms]

Why do you even bother then? If you genuinely believe the sport can never be popular or high quality in Australia whats the point.

Edit: I didn't say historically rugby has been popular, i said that it could be popular in the future.

 

[TOCC]

Time to stop using the other codes as A defence for poor performance and shit decisions from the ARU

 

[TOCC]

It's a meeting of the World Rugby Council. Robinson and Pulver are our delegates to the Council.

Robinson's even a member of the executive of the WRC

http://www.worldrugby.org/organisation/structure/council?lang=en

Sure, but that's a seperate event to the SANZAAR meeting, ARU deputy chairman is the WRC appointee and the ARU Chairman is the ARU appointed SANZAAR board member. They both have their respective roles and jobs but for some reason the ARU wont have their appointed board member representative at the crucial SANZAAR Chairmans meeting..given how crucial meeting is to the future of Australian Rugby it seems very strange

 

[Strewthcobber]

Kurtley getting parachuted back into the Waratahs is an obvious example of how the ARU could improve the fortunes of some of the other Super Rugby teams.

The ARU top up is basically subsidisng the Waratahs salary cap. You could easily make the same offer $$$$ wise, contingent on Kurtley moving to the Force or Rebs.

Of course he may not accept that offer, (and it may not even be what Cheiks thinks is best) but it's one way they could improve non-NSW teams if they genuinely want to have a spread of strong teams across the country.

Folau, Foley, Hooper, Kepu, Phipps, Would be (deservedly) some of the highest paid players in the country, add in Mumm and Skelton too. I wonder what the Tah's "genuine" salary cap is and how it would compare to everyone else

 

[Moono75]

Rugby in Australia is run by a bunch of fuddy duddies bereft of ideas as to how to take the game forward. The promotion and marketing of Super Rugby is a joke........and in saying that it's hard to make a judgement based on a sample size of nothing, because that's about the extent of their promotion.

Super Rugby simply exists, it doesn't live a life.

 

[Gnostic]

Horse shit? History tells us that rugby has NEVER been popular in this country, except for relatively brief periods.





That is fact, not horse shit. Very few other countries have TWO home grown and home administered winter footy codes who have historically had the upper hand, and both of which have always put a high premium on the entertainment value of their sport.







Australians have voted with their wallets, year after year after year. The best we have ever been is a strong third in some markets. That was our high point, and it happened when the Super League wars were on in earnest. Those days have gone. We are now a dismal fourth or so.







Face the facts. What happens in other countries is totally irrelevant to our situation when it comes to the relative popularity of sporting codes.





And yes, the product is the problem. The product is the game of rugby as it is played in Australia.

Wamberal it is shit. I went to the SFS for the Shute Shield GF '94 and '95 (working there not as a spectator though it was a sweet gig given my love of the game) and the place was packed. A sell out crowd I haven't seen at a Super Rugby game in this country outside of the very few finals in Oz and the Reds golden years '11-'12. If a purely amateur game with a few Wallabies on show can pack a 40K stadium 23 years ago why can't it again? It shows that the game was popular at that point, even without a Super League war.

The fact it is struggling now is down to the poor quality of the Australian Pro sides AND the social capital the various Unions have burnt. Don't forget that the Tahs maintained some of the largest crowd figures in Oz right up until they treated their fans with disdain and contempt with the Hickey/Foley contempt at the Fan Forum. After that the fan base collapsed and has not recovered really even with a title win.

 

[Gnostic]

Kurtley getting parachuted back into the Waratahs is an obvious example of how the ARU could improve the fortunes of some of the other Super Rugby teams.



The ARU top up is basically subsidisng the Waratahs salary cap. You could easily make the same offer $$$$ wise, contingent on Kurtley moving to the Force or Rebs.



Of course he may not accept that offer, (and it may not even be what Cheiks thinks is best) but it's one way they could improve non-NSW teams if they genuinely want to have a spread of strong teams across the country.



Folau, Foley, Hooper, Kepu, Phipps, Would be (deservedly) some of the highest paid players in the country, add in Mumm and Skelton too. I wonder what the Tah's "genuine" salary cap is and how it would compare to everyone else

Parachuting KB (Kurtley Beale) into any Australian side is a retrograde step. I said it about Elsom, Douglas and Vickerman at the time as well and they did not have the historical behavioural issues that this individual brings. Why not bring back JOC (James O'Connor) (if he wasn't under (or sitting on) a white cloud at the moment). I have never understood this fixation with individual "X" players and paying them special salaries and conditions acts to degrade the team ethos IMO. It undermines the so called development structures and the value the extended playing group sees in remaining in a relatively lower paying league like the Super competition if they can get a Euro or Japanese gig. Why bother even trying if for instance you are a Ben Mowen type player when Elsom is brought back injured and not played a game of Super Rugby and is handed not only a Wallaby jersey but the Captaincy? Why should Godwin, Inman etc etc etc even bother staying, selection is not based on true merit but some nepotistic assessment made by coaches on "potential" and not on actual performance.

 

[Braveheart81]

He's 28.

He was overseas for one season.

He was one of our best players in the last tests he played (2015 RWC).

He's been in outstanding form since returning from injury. He would absolutely get picked on form now.

 

[Joe King]

Horse shit? History tells us that rugby has NEVER been popular in this country, except for relatively brief periods.


That is fact, not horse shit. Very few other countries have TWO home grown and home administered winter footy codes who have historically had the upper hand, and both of which have always put a high premium on the entertainment value of their sport.



Australians have voted with their wallets, year after year after year. The best we have ever been is a strong third in some markets. That was our high point, and it happened when the Super League wars were on in earnest. Those days have gone. We are now a dismal fourth or so.



Face the facts. What happens in other countries is totally irrelevant to our situation when it comes to the relative popularity of sporting codes.


And yes, the product is the problem. The product is the game of rugby as it is played in Australia.

And in comparison, I've got to say, the way the NZ teams have been playing for the last couple of years, they make rugby look so attractive. If Super Rugby did become a trans-tasman conference for the regular season, and the Oz teams were able to become a bit more consistent *somehow*, I think Super Rugby could gain a bit in popularity.

 

[Gnostic]

He's 28.



He was overseas for one season.



He was one of our best players in the last tests he played (2015 RWC).



He's been in outstanding form since returning from injury. He would absolutely get picked on form now.

No Super form which is purely the reason for the policy to select Australian based players, which by you will have to agree has been always my position. I do not pick and choose or play favourites. Like I said if Beale walks straight back into the Wallabies and I was a player adviser of somebody like Kyle Godwin I'd be saying mate you have no future when dealing with faithless administrators who play semantics to choose their favourites.

 

[Shiggins]

Why is no one calling for the brumbies to be put aside? They make more sense then the force that's for sure.

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[Twoilms]

47k at cowboys broncos. 5 game out of 6 that's gone to extra time.

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[Twoilms]

No Super form which is purely the reason for the policy to select Australian based players, which by you will have to agree has been always my position. I do not pick and choose or play favourites. Like I said if Beale walks straight back into the Wallabies and I was a player adviser of somebody like Kyle Godwin I'd be saying mate you have no future when dealing with faithless administrators who play semantics to choose their favourites.

Godwin is less than half the player Beale is what the hell are you on about mate.

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[Gnostic]

Godwin is less than half the player Beale is what the hell are you on about mate.



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Godwin has been playing Super Rugby this year. That is what I'm on about.
The same people whinge and moan about the state of rugby and the in fighting and the politics but have no thought for the integrity of process and systems. I and others predicted a great many of the outcomes we are now seeing for Australian Rugby, not last year or the year before but up to a decade ago. It all comes back to building systems with integrity, the ARU and provincial Unions have not done that, they have consistently burnt the social and monetary capital the game has given them and now they face a collapse in support and outcomes, because at no point have their systems passed any test of integrity.

Beale is a symptom, like JOC (James O'Connor), a player of rare and undoubted talent, badly behaved, paid exceptionally and treated deferentially by a system which failed to stand up to any examination of transparency, integrity and probity. Now he is to be parachuted back into the Wallabies by virtue of a 2017 signing with the Tahs, just like Elsom, Vickerman and Douglas have been in the past. The system again fails integrity with clear nepotism.

For Australia to maintain 5 Super sides depth was always needed and for that to be maintained depth players are needed, players like Godwin, Luke Jones, Ben Mowen........... the list goes on and on. How many of those players see that rules will be bent for favourite players and hammered home on others who not as "valuable".

Beale MAY result in short term gains, but WILL result in long term losses simply because it reinforces the loss of integrity in poor systems.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

Have to agree, there are clear favourites, and the treatment of non-favourite 'depth players' is appalling.

A good example is the speaker phone conversation between Michael O'Connor and Lote Tuqiri regarding Peter Hewat, for instance. On the other hand, Link had his hands tied in dealing with Beale following his reprehensible behaviour. This points to a weak culture of deference to the star players.

 

[GTPIH]

Beale qualifies under the Giteau rule so would probably be selected no matter where he is playing next year

 

[The torpedo]

A good example is the speaker phone conversation between Michael O'Connor and Lote Tuqiri regarding Peter Hewat, for instance.

What happened?

 

[p.Tah]

What happened?

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/articles/2007/05/14/1178995067400.html