Where to for Super Rugby?

[Up the Guts]

Maybe I'm an outlier on this, but I think the quality of Aussie derby games has been way higher this year.

I can't remember a bad one - Brumbies/Rebels this weekend was fast, close and relatively skilful.

A few years ago the derbies were horrific, riddled with errors and pedantic officiating. I think we're a long way from where we used to be.

The skills thing is probably true to an extent, it's just that, personally, watching the same four teams pitted against each other an increasing number of times a year isn't that interesting. I much more inclined to watch one of our sides taking on a Kiwi team knowing that in all likelihood they'll lose. However, given that the competition is too big now to play more international fixtures I'd be in favour of a smaller regional competition that adds a bit more variety and then we could have the state games as a representative honour NRL style.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I think, at least in relation to the Brumbies, Barbs, that it is a failure of the game plan that is spoiling the spectacle and losing fans. The Brumbies of last year or before would not spend 10 - 15 minutes camped on the opposition tryline without scoring. Now, recently, they've done just that against the Rebels and the Crusaders.

 

[half]

T

Part 3 - AFL has tapped into the female market place in a way that Rugby can only dream of and in so doing they have doubled their potential fan base. I agree with you that they continue to exterminate other sports but at the same time they bring new supporters to their games because the spectacle of the game (70,000 people, three or four times a week in Melbourne) is so much fun in the pre, the during and the post match conversations.

Partly my part 3 was actually the AFL is losing control of the media as the net expands. Control of the media has always been the weapon AFL has had over every other code.

Let's be under no illusions. Australia's sporting market is finite and relatively small, with a society that is both rabidly addicted to all manner of football codes yet also dominated by certain cultural paradigms. This is unlike almost any other country in the world (the US, Ireland and Canada come closest).

In a country of 25 million, where money, players, media attention and political interest are split helter skelter across the four codes, with the added complication of a north vs south split to the two dominant codes, with a dash of ethnic division on top, it is inevitable that all four codes will fight, will look to find any possible dominance over the others.

They cannot sit in stasis, letting any of the other codes increase their share of revenue, of players, of club members, of political advocates etc etc. If they do they will become less and less profitable, less and less part of the national sporting culture, and for their relevant vested interests, see a decline in their power, influence, and income.

Union has by light years been behind every other code, in regards management, defending itself, and putting out a product.

SANZAAR seems to me to be dominated by NZ & SA influences, who neither appreciate the state of the rugby in Australia, also want us to fix our own issues when in fact not having product is the issue.

The aggression, dirty tricks, and ruthlessness of the AFL, IMO is not understood by rugby folk in the same way as in league and soccer. I am ever amazed at the number of rugby folk who will praise AFL, and it’s almost as if they are our friend or the lesser evil.

We need more teams and a competition independent from RA to run the professional game in Australia to even start to compete.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

3news reporting that NZR & NZ Gov't are backing a Fiji-based PI side to join Super Rugby from 2021, apparently with funding from Gov't who see it as a means to combat China's cheque book diplomacy. Proposal to go to next SANZAAR meeting in London next month.

It's not on their website yet but once it's there I'll post a link.

 

[kiap]

The aggression, dirty tricks, and ruthlessness of the AFL, IMO is not understood by rugby folk in the same way as in league and soccer. I am ever amazed at the number of rugby folk who will praise AFL, and it’s almost as if they are our friend or the lesser evil.

Agree with this.

It's as though rugby league is the only opposition, when it's well behind the AFL.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

More on the mooted PI Super Rugby entity:

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...-set-up-pacific-islands-super-rugby-team.html

NZ Gov't paid the $80K consultancy fee but not committing to stumping up any startup or ongoing costs. Unsurprisingly new NZR Board member Sir Michael Jones is right behind it as is the Hale T'Pole who runs the PI rugby welfare organization.

 

[Dan54]

By Geez that is interesting isn't it WOB? If some high ups get behind it , maybe it can get legs!!

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^^ still lots of unanswered questions at this point, top of my list being who's place do they take? Or are they a re-expansion team? As long as the financials stack up I'm all for it BUT it's also got to stack up from a competition integrity POV, we don't need another S18-style disaster.

EDIT: in terms of high ups getting behind it, if Brett Impy is on board he's almost certainly got the whole Board behind him so that's a big start, as I'm sure you know only too well plenty of big ideas have fallen victim to Chairman v Board conflict over the years & by all accounts Impey makes sure everyone's on the same page before committing to anything major.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

^^^^^^ still lots of unanswered questions at this point, top of my list being who's place do they take? Or are they a re-expansion team? As long as the financials stack up I'm all for it BUT it's also got to stack up from a competition integrity POV, we don't need another S18-style disaster.

EDIT: in terms of high ups getting behind it, if Brett Impy is on board he's almost certainly got the whole Board behind him so that's a big start, as I'm sure you know only too well plenty of big ideas have fallen victim to Chairman v Board conflict over the years & by all accounts Impey makes sure everyone's on the same page before committing to anything major.

At their current rate of decline they may be replacing the Brumbies by that point.

 

[sunnyboys]

They’ll need a few once AUS withdraws

 

[joeyjohnz]

Darkly humourous is the diplomatic reasoning behind a Fijian team (soft-diplomacy to win favour over china in Fiji).

Do they realise they'll be 2 years too late by then?

The Western Force will be gone; as will Tonga, Fiji & Samoa to World Series Rugby.

Ironically enough; a competition it's owner is using as tool for soft diplomacy to win the favour OF China!

 

[Rugbynutter39]

3news reporting that NZR & NZ Gov't are backing a Fiji-based PI side to join Super Rugby from 2021, apparently with funding from Gov't who see it as a means to combat China's cheque book diplomacy. Proposal to go to next SANZAAR meeting in London next month.



It's not on their website yet but once it's there I'll post a link.

Fiji will be playing for Twiggy Ball next year.

 

[sunnyboys]

Eh?? Have the Drua been booted from NRC? Or are they playing NRC, WSR and Super Rugby?! Busy lads!!!

 

[kiap]

Eh?? Have the Drua been booted from NRC? Or are they playing NRC, WSR and Super Rugby?! Busy lads!!!

Busy, yeah, although the first two don't overlap.

The third is not in the frame until 2021, if at all.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yeah, although the first two don't overlap.



The third is not in the frame until 2021, if at all.

lol...and do anybody really think Super Rugby will still be going by 2021....Drua will be playing alongside the Force WSR (or Indo Pacific comp or whatever they call it) plus NRC.....and they will use NRC to play their second and third string players who don't get much game time during WSR etc to develop etc similar to what Super Rugby clubs do now...

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Pity sunwolves can't move to Twiggy Ball as that competition has got the notion you level the playing field to make for a more appealing cross border product. I mean seriously Super Rugby says Sunwolves up to you to prove you deserve to be in Super Rugby despite commercially the huge potential of Japanese market SANZAAR not saying how can we reshape Super Rugby structures and rules to ensure a team from a huge big potential commercial market can be successful. SANZAAR is a brain dead organisation that lacks vision and business acumen....and why real business people that people like Twiggy and his team of business advisors put in have a better chance of creating a competition that crosses borders with a much more solid and sound business model.

 

[joeyjohnz]

lol.and do anybody really think Super Rugby will still be going by 2021..

How far down that rabbit hole do you wanna go? I'm predicting RA Bankruptcy in 2020/2021. Will we be able to fund a QLD & NSW team after the financial losses that a WC year brings and Super Rugby attendances & ratings in the scrap heap? After all, how can our participation be sustainable in Super Rugby when all 4 teams are getting crowds of 5-12k.

 

[Omar Comin']

This wouldn't be my preferred outcome but a potential option to keep Super Rugby alive is to seriously contract it. E.g. 2 Australian teams, 3 NZ teams, 2 (maybe 3) South African, 1 Argentinian, 1 Japanese (maybe). Single round robin then semi finals. All players centrally contracted by the respective unions, full focus on being easily the highest quality rugby in the world beneath test level. Given the small number of teams it should be financially sustainable for the unions, and the max number of matches any single test player had to play per year would be around 25. This is the way to make Super Rugby like a 10 or 11 week state of origin series in terms of intensity and concentration of talent.

The rest of the current teams in Super Rugby from Aus/NZ could then join World Series Rugby/IPRC (1 or 2 extra South African teams to the Pro 14/16/whatever), which could be a regular sports league with a full season, living within its means, and run independently (but with the endorsement) of the unions.

 

[James Pettifer]

Pity sunwolves can't move to Twiggy Ball as that competition has got the notion you level the playing field to make for a more appealing cross border product

It's not #$@%ing rocket science really is it ...

 

[barbarian]

I'll probably spam this on a few threads, but everyone needs to read Jamie's article on the front page.

It's a long article but smashes it out of the park on the issues we're facing.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/australian-rugby-how-to-stop-it-failing-upwards/