Where to for Super Rugby?

[Derpus]

What about the Force? Surely a 10 team competition with Aus team playing home and away against one another, same for NZ and then a game each against the teams from each side of the Tasman for 13 games would be a better fit overall.

Yeah - for some reason i thought they might be otherwise occupied but obviously not.

Sure - 10 team comp. Not a bad place to start eh.

 

[Derpus]

^ short-term I think that's probably the only realistic option. PI involvement will have to wait until their tourism-dependant economies recover from Covid & that ain't gunna happen until there's a vaccine & enough of their people are vaxxed against the inevitable arrival of someone who's not.

Unless they only play away and their team is based out of Aus or NZ.

 

[Dan54]

What about the Force? Surely a 10 team competition with Aus team playing home and away against one another, same for NZ and then a game each against the teams from each side of the Tasman for 13 games would be a better fit overall.

With all the will in the world, does anyone seriously think Force would be competitive in Super rugby? In a year or 2 with a fair bit of buying maybe, but now??

 

[Derpus]

With all the will in the world, does anyone seriously think Force would be competitive in Super rugby? In a year or 2 with a fair bit of buying maybe, but now??

Highlanders and Tahs are pretty damn average at the moment..........

 

[dru]

With all the will in the world, does anyone seriously think Force would be competitive in Super rugby? In a year or 2 with a fair bit of buying maybe, but now??

I’d prefer a domestic comp with Force than a TT without them.

(Hell, if you can be a broken record, so can I).

If NZ are not interested or capable of contributing to a comp with a playing field that is competitive then a TT is not viable.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

With all the will in the world, does anyone seriously think Force would be competitive in Super rugby? In a year or 2 with a fair bit of buying maybe, but now??

Well, there could be a work around with that. The Jaguares players aren't doing too much at present. And depending on when a number of SA players may be available. With enough warning the Force could be allowed to recruit a number of them to help bring them up to speed.

 

[Joe King]

What about the Force? Surely a 10 team competition with Aus team playing home and away against one another, same for NZ and then a game each against the teams from each side of the Tasman for 13 games would be a better fit overall.

Though if they went with that, my bet is it wouldn't look as neat as playing your own conference first and then the o/s teams afterwards. Instead, I reckon it would just be a TT comp with extra local derby games throughout.

And I still think Australia can't field more than 3-4 competitive teams for the competition to be attractive to viewers. However, that might be as good as it gets for Australia, unfortunately.

edit: just saw your interesting idea about recruiting o/s players for the Force above. I don't have enough knowledge to comment, but I noted it.

 

[Joe King]

In a recent post to the Australian Rugby/ RA thread, member Joe King wrote that one way to make Aus teams more competitive with NZ ones in a Trans Tasman (TT) comp, "...would be for NZR to pick test players from non-NZ teams..". This, and the idea that this represents building depth in Aus rugby is something I've seen mooted on this thread multiple times with some even suggesting it be the price of admission for NZ teams into such a comp...

Thanks for your insight and pushback wo.

Here's a thought from left-field. What if it paid for NZ to have a 6th team? They would have some way of evening out the talent across their 6 teams, wouldn't they?

Now what if they based that team in Australia and called it the Western Force?

OK, it may not work with the Western Force, and it's a pretty crazy idea. But it would be better than the Force missing out because Australian can only provide 4 teams that are competitive enough. And it would be better than Australia trying to field 5 teams of their own, where 1 of them at least, is always uncompetitive.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ the problem with that is that we also generally have at least one team that's significantly weaker than the others. This year it's Clan, previous to that Loss Bleus, Tribe, Horrorcanes & even CruSadists (dead last in '96, not much better in '97) have had that dubious honour. I really don't think we can field six teams from either a financial or strength of roster POV - unless of course the NH bubbles burst & we get a heap of quality players returning from o/s (& under that scenario you get a similar injection of new-but-old talent, too, of course).

 

[Dan54]

I’d prefer a domestic comp with Force than a TT without them.

(Hell, if you can be a broken record, so can I).

If NZ are not interested or capable of contributing to a comp with a playing field that is competitive then a TT is not viable.

I don't have a problem with you wanting a domestic only comp, it's nothing to do with NZ (and I understand you don't want them in a comp), but I don't think Force would be competitive in an Aus comp, which is all we going to get this year! didn't the force play NRC last year? I would suggest Aus super rugby teams are quite some step up from NRC!
I still not sure how NZ can contribute to a playing field that is even, (although I not sure it not) without doing what they do now?

 

[Dan54]

Well, there could be a work around with that. The Jaguares players aren't doing too much at present. And depending on when a number of SA players may be available. With enough warning the Force could be allowed to recruit a number of them to help bring them up to speed.

Yep WCR, exactly what I talking about, I not suggesting they shouldn't be in it, but they need to buy some talent!! Actually I think perhaps some of Jaguares would be great to look at in any super teams if they are going to be left with noone to play!

 

[Dan54]

Thanks for your insight and pushback wo.

Here's a thought from left-field. What if it paid for NZ to have a 6th team? They would have some way of evening out the talent across their 6 teams, wouldn't they?

Now what if they based that team in Australia and called it the Western Force?

OK, it may not work with the Western Force, and it's a pretty crazy idea. But it would be better than the Force missing out because Australian can only provide 4 teams that are competitive enough. And it would be better than Australia trying to field 5 teams of their own, where 1 of them at least, is always uncompetitive.

I think rather than weakening teams to make comp more even JK, perhaps WCR's idea of getting players from overseas ie Jaguares to strengthen teams, obviously if they not got a comp, would be pretty good.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I don't have a problem with you wanting a domestic only comp, it's nothing to do with NZ (and I understand you don't want them in a comp), but I don't think Force would be competitive in an Aus comp, which is all we going to get this year! didn't the force play NRC last year? I would suggest Aus super rugby teams are quite some step up from NRC!
I still not sure how NZ can contribute to a playing field that is even, (although I not sure it not) without doing what they do now?

I'm sure we all remember they won the NRC last year. And gave the Vikings (similar to an understrength Brumbies side) a bit of a hiding in the final.

If they play in whatever comp is put in place this year, hopefully they will be able to build up their roster but they will not necessarily be uncompetitive.

 

[Dan54]

I'm sure we all remember they won the NRC last year. And gave the Vikings (similar to an understrength Brumbies side) a bit of a hiding in the final.

If they play in whatever comp is put in place this year, hopefully they will be able to build up their roster but they will not necessarily be uncompetitive.

Ok, I will take your word BR, I just think it quite a step up from NRC to Super level teams with international players in them, and even in Aus conference to we want blow out scores?? Hey they maybe better than I think and would be real pleased if they were, but even if they do scrape through this year I hope there a bit of buying next season to strengthen them. Or do you think they will be competitive in a Super comp, perhaps if Aus only conference going forward, we could make Reds, Brumbies etc send some of their players over there to even out comp?? I know it a stupid idea but hey if we want NZ to do same?.............

And by the way I really hope Force are back in any comp going forward, regardless of the shit time they play!!

 

[Dan54]

Just out of interest, someone on ROAR has written an interesting idea for going forward where he suggest Aus cut's to 2 Super team Tahs and Reds, and rest join a 7 team semi pro comp with Reds and Tahs 'juniors' (see B's). It a pretty interesting concept to say the least and all about building the Wallabies etc. I haven't really got my head around it all, but it interesting once again to see how minds are working to come up with what they think is the betterment of Aus rugby!!

 

[Boof1050]

Hey guys you do realise that the Force is the only team in the southern hemisphere right now that has a shitload of coin backing them and players are still on full retainer. Never underestimate a side that has the financial backing and now a side that has been together now for the best part of three years. Needless to say they're gonna be competetive!

 

[Dismal Pillock]

someone on ROAR has written an interesting idea for going forward where he suggest Aus cut's to 2 Super team Tahs and Reds, and rest join a 7 team semi pro comp with Reds and Tahs 'juniors' (see B's).

OMFG Bumbreeze Runner is going to have a heart attack in his fucking brain when he sees this post.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Just out of interest, someone on ROAR has written an interesting idea for going forward where he suggest Aus cut's to 2 Super team Tahs and Reds, and rest join a 7 team semi pro comp with Reds and Tahs 'juniors' (see B's). It a pretty interesting concept to say the least and all about building the Wallabies etc. I haven't really got my head around it all, but it interesting once again to see how minds are working to come up with what they think is the betterment of Aus rugby!!

Okay. So I've read the piece. Frankly I'd prefer the 12 team model with the Pasifika team with 4 Aus teams. Would make more sense in my opinion.

 

[Dan54]

Okay. So I've read the piece. Frankly I'd prefer the 12 team model with the Pasifika team with 4 Aus teams. Would make more sense in my opinion.

Yep WCR, but I thought it was interesting idea anyway, don't really think I agreed with it. For one thing that wouldn't get set up (and probably the same with most comps involving new countries) for 2-3 years, and in the meantime you need something to keep rugby public and TV engaged.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Thanks for your insight and pushback wo.

Here's a thought from left-field. What if it paid for NZ to have a 6th team? They would have some way of evening out the talent across their 6 teams, wouldn't they?

Now what if they based that team in Australia and called it the Western Force?

OK, it may not work with the Western Force, and it's a pretty crazy idea. But it would be better than the Force missing out because Australian can only provide 4 teams that are competitive enough. And it would be better than Australia trying to field 5 teams of their own, where 1 of them at least, is always uncompetitive.

^ the problem with that is that we also generally have at least one team that's significantly weaker than the others. This year it's Clan, previous to that Loss Bleus, Tribe, Horrorcanes & even CruSadists (dead last in '96, not much better in '97) have had that dubious honour. I really don't think we can field six teams from either a financial or strength of roster POV - unless of course the NH bubbles burst & we get a heap of quality players returning from o/s (& under that scenario you get a similar injection of new-but-old talent, too, of course).

On the subject of NH bubbles potentially bursting:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...k-simon-mannix-warns-french-pay-days-numbered

TLDR: French clubs now required to field an average of at least 16 home-grown players across a season, meaning fewer spots available to SH imports, meaning that whereas SH will probably continue to lose marquee-grade players they won't lose as many in the next strata down. If it works I'd expect Ringinland & the Celts to follow suit within the next two RWC cycles.