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Where to for Super Rugby?

Discussion in 'Rugby Discussion' started by Quick Hands, Mar 5, 2017.

  1. RebelYell Alex Ross (28)

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    I still see this as an opportunity for Rebels or Brumbies to agree a deal to play some games in Fiji
  2. ForceFan Colin Windon (37)

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    RA and Australian SR franchises are broke so what negotiating power does Australia really have?
    Without a significant level of PE - possibly from a number of sources - Australia has little to bring to the table in any TT negotiation.

    Australia may have no choice but to go it alone for a couple of years as both RA and Australian rugby rebuild from the grassroots.
    The Honey Badger likes this.
  3. hoggy Jim Clark (26)

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    Isn't part of that interest kiwi expats, something like 500,000. Weren't the Blues the second most supported franchise in Aus.
  4. Derpus Steve Williams (59)

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    Except 5 established teams with fan bases etc. NZ can go it alone sure, but it's a 5 team comp which is a bit silly long term. As WO has pointed out several times - there's really no space to expand NZ's number of domestic teams.

    So they can either continue with SR Aotearoa, abolish their existing franchises and go with a beefed up Mitre 10 cup (which would be insane IMO) or join with Aus and have a 10 team comp.

    As Reg points out - going it alone effectively means a return to semi-professionalism. Personally, i don't think Rugby will ever come back from that.
    The_Brown_Hornet and barbarian like this.
  5. waiopehu oldboy David Wilson (68)

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    A lot of people on here seem to be taking the approach that the comp(s) should have 'x' teams @ $'y' to run each of them therefore RA has to somehow or other come up with $'z' to make it viable. I think it's far more likely that RA (& NZR) are looking at it from the POV of having $'x' available to fund the comp(s) @ $'y' to run a team therefore the maximum number of teams they can field is 'z'.

    The NZR-SkyTV deal, reportedly worth $NZ100Mn p.a., would have been based on annual domestic content of up to six AB tests, up to 36 SR matches, a similar number of M10 matches, & other content e.g. Women's & 7's. Obviously if S14 v2.0 doesn't happen Sky can't be held to that figure & if it comes down to say $NZ80Mn p.a. that then affects NZR's ability to fund the franchises it already has, let alone any extra.

    RA's position is worse than NZR's as they don't even have a deal for S14 & no obvious alternative to taking whatever Fox offers for whatever comp(s) it wants to broadcast & hope it's enough to keep them afloat until they find (or establish) an alternate broadcaster. If you couldn't afford five S15 franchises (& Twiggy's $$$$ notwithstanding) you sure as shit aren't going to be able to afford five TT or eight domestic-only ones*.

    * Edit: fully professional & including at least most Wallabies.
  6. Derpus Steve Williams (59)

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    None of that sounds like it results in a viable comp for either country to be honest.
    The_Brown_Hornet and dru like this.
  7. KevinO John Thornett (49)

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    Super rugby gets no commercial presence here at all, why? Becuase it's a crap product that's to hard to follow for the everyday arm chair fan.

    The thing that Domestic or TT offers is a easy to follow competition that majority of arm chairs fans will understand.

    Also allows new adverting and marketing.

    I remember when Cricket fans said the Big Bash will never work cause it's no longer state based, now it's bigger than International T20 and One day games combined.
    Ignoto and KOB1987 like this.
  8. waiopehu oldboy David Wilson (68)

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    ^ Difference being that the money for Big Bash came from a broadcaster desperate for content.
  9. KOB1987 Andrew Slack (58)

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    Which was no doubt part of the consideration back in 2017. But this time around, if it's not in our best interests to retain the Force, and NZR don't want to participate in that, then we part ways with them.
    dru likes this.
  10. Derpus Steve Williams (59)

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    Just need to whore ourselves out to PE then, eh.
  11. KOB1987 Andrew Slack (58)

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    Quite possibly yes. I don't see that as a bad thing as long as it's done right. Remember it's only the competition and/or teams at the pro tier they will own, not the Wallabies, and the players are contracted to these teams just like they are now.
    Silverado and ForceFan like this.
  12. waiopehu oldboy David Wilson (68)

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    Which is why TT is the only way to go. As above, how many teams from Oz & NZ depends entirely on the $ value our respective broadcasters place on it plus whatever sponsorship, PE etc. each Union can raise. If that initially means 3 x Oz & 4 x NZ then that's what it is. Anything else ends in bankruptcy IMO.

    ForceFan and Ignoto like this.
  13. ForceFan Colin Windon (37)

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    A TT competition doesn't gain any traction in NZ because the Kiwis want some competition.
    There is no pulling power in NZ from games against Australian SR teams.
    Kiwis will still attend Bledisloe games (but even those in decreasing numbers)
    This has increasingly been the case in recent years.

    Generally the Aussie teams have been easy beats.

    Look at the standing and results from the start of SR 2020..
    Only the Brumbies offered any level of competition:

    Brumbies - 4W 1L - 2nd
    Rebels - 3w 3L - 9th
    Reds - 2W 5L - 10th
    Waratahs - 1W 4L - 14th

    At least the fan base that you talk about have been increasingly returning to club rugby.
    Hence my comments of the return to grassroots.

    With the upheaval at Board level it seems that the focus on those remaining in RA has been on 2020 ONLY.
    Meanwhile the rugby world moves on.

    There are lots of fanciful ideas being presented but from where are the enabling $$s coming?
    Dismal Pillock likes this.
  14. Derpus Steve Williams (59)

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    Well we've been more competitive historically than SA, so is that the real reason? NZ can't really put forward a viable SR competition on their own, so the fact that only one or two Aussie teams are going to be a finals contender doesn't really seem a real issue to me.
    Brumby Runner likes this.
  15. The Honey Badger Peter Johnson (47)

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    Well if Twiggy is funding the Force, why cant we keep 5 teams?

    If Twiggy wants to keep going with GRR, then we should have 4. Crazy to reduce it any more
  16. Rebels3 Peter Fenwicke (45)

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    Broadcasters will be wanting 16-20weeks of content. Guaranteed timeslots and regular fixtures in timeslots they can monetize.

    For Aus 3 will fail to achieve the timeslots issue, there will be weeks where there is only 1 game on at prime time. This has been an issue for Fox. For NZ a 5 team competition is okay however as Sky’s primary subscription driver it isn’t long enough to attract customers. That’s the reality of everything that will drive broadcaster decisions.

    A decline of around 20% of current money offered by broadcasters could easily be absorbed in reduction of travel and accommodation costs and improved sponsorships due to increased visibility. As well as the fact the broadcasters would know they can monetize the games on offer with advertising with an increased improvement on consistency of timeslots, etc.
    dru likes this.
  17. wamberal David Codey (61)

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    Because the assumption is that the cousins will not go with 4.
  18. Dismal Pillock Geoff Shaw (53)

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    I think this might be Rugby Reg explaining to Sully how to troll NSFW match day threads.
    Boof1050 likes this.
  19. The_Brown_Hornet Michael Lynagh (62)

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    Yeah I really hope this is where we get to. I like the idea of an OZ competition but commercially it's got to involve the Kiwi teams to ensure long term commercial viability.
  20. barbarian Nick Farr-Jones (63)

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    And as the weekend showed, it will just be heaps better rugby.
    The_Brown_Hornet, ForceFan and Derpus like this.

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