Where to for Super Rugby?

[kiap]

45 players have missed one or more games due to injury, most of those injuries have occurred in play rather than training etc.

Any increase, if it exists, is more likely due to the abrupt season shutdown, fallow time with no contact, then restart.These games aren't newly invented match-ups. They've been happening for 25 years. But a new mantra has to be invented from a tiny data sample to put a pretty bow on this isolated provincial comp.

 

[Rebels3]

It is. If it’s something they really consider as a problem then they didn’t really think through the congesting Australia’s best players into 2 teams thing.

Exactly “let’s magnify it with 2 more immensely talented teams that will play at a minimum the same level, oh and add a team of massive Pacific Islanders”.

It’s just a tyre pumping exercise, I’d almost guarantee if you matched it against the Aus attrition rate it would look very similar. The Rebels alone have had Magnay, Louwrens, DHP, Naisarani, Leota, Gibbon all miss game time due to injuries and we are 3 rounds behind where the kiwis are. I’m sure the other Aus teams would be exactly the same.

 

[Rebels3]

Any increase, if it exists, is more likely due to the abrupt season shutdown, fallow time with no contact, then restart.These games aren't newly invented match-ups. They've been happening for 25 years. But a new mantra has to be invented from a tiny data sample to put a pretty bow on this isolated provincial comp.

Injuries in the AFL and NRL are at an almost record high. Manly have over 10 players on the injury list, the Raiders arent too far off as well.

It’s a FIGJAM comment on the superiority of the league

 

[hoggy]

^ It's not a "fake problem": 45 players have missed one or more games due to injury, most of those injuries have occurred in play rather than training etc & at least ten have been season- or even year-ending.

So the solution to that is to condense Australia to two Super teams and introduce a beefed up Pacific team, how does that solve the injury issue.

 

[Dan54]

I think you’ll find that’s just the usual attrition rate. It was only last year the chiefs used around 40 players in a season.

Could well be all bullshit, only trouble is it's one that is also aided and abetted by Aus players, I heard Drew Mitchell and a couple of Super players saying the reason you you didn't want to play to many NZ teams in a row as they were so intense and quick it resulted in too many injuries.

 

[Mr Wobbly]

I think a bit part of this perception about the "brutality" and "test match intensity" of the NZ derbies comes from the relative positivity of their TV commentators and press vs the Aussie moaners. The Kiwis are always talking up their own players and teams but the reality is they miss tackles and drop balls too. Their commentary just doesn't seem to focus on the negatives as much as ours.

If you set aside the Waratahs' games (because they were truly shithouse) from the pre-covid games the rest were pretty even:

Brumbies 22 vs Highlanders 23
Chiefs 14 vs Brumbies 26
Highlanders 22 vs Rebels 28
Crusaders 24 vs Reds 20

NZ 83 vs Aus 96 (add the Tahs games in and it's 147 - 209, the other way)

Against Saffa teams it was 4 Kiwi wins vs 3 SA.

It's a small sample but do the NZ teams only bring out the brutality and test match intensity when they're playing each other, or is it just marketing and spin?

 

[Dctarget]

Did the weekend Aus matches have fake crowd noises? Or was the SFS louder than I expected?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Could well be all bullshit, only trouble is it's one that is also aided and abetted by Aus players, I heard Drew Mitchell and a couple of Super players saying the reason you you didn't want to play to many NZ teams in a row as they were so intense and quick it resulted in too many injuries.

Well. Alan Ala'alatoa recently said in an interview that Super Rugby Au has been producing the most physical Rugby he and a lot of his fellow players have ever played. And they are loving it. The attrition argument is steeped in the all encompassing ABs first mentality of NZ Rugby. In which despite how popular SRA has been it's still looked upon as a mere trial system as per the lack of a finals system for the ABs.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

So the solution to that is to condense Australia to two Super teams and introduce a beefed up Pacific team, how does that solve the injury issue.

You'd have to ask someone who suggests condensing Australia to two Super teams and introducing a beefed up Pacific team how that solves the injury issue.......

 

[Dan54]

Well. Alan Ala'alatoa recently said in an interview that Super Rugby Au has been producing the most physical Rugby he and a lot of his fellow players have ever played. And they are loving it. The attrition argument is steeped in the all encompassing ABs first mentality of NZ Rugby. In which despite how popular SRA has been it's still looked upon as a mere trial system as per the lack of a finals system for the ABs.

Mate like or lump it Super comp is also a trial for Wallabies, only the most stupid don't realise it. I know it easy for you lot to call NZR as callous buggers who use the Super as trials while all along ignoring the facts, that Aus have no other trial system etc or are you telling me Wallabies are only going to be picked from the 3 teams that are in finals?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Mate like or lump it Super comp is also a trial for Wallabies, only the most stupid don't realise it. I know it easy for you lot to call NZR as callous buggers who use the Super as trials while all along ignoring the facts, that Aus have no other trial system etc or are you telling me Wallabies are only going to be picked from the 3 teams that are in finals?

I've said as much in the past. But that's not where RA has been proposing going forward. The move to a independent management structure is to develop it as a commercial venture.

 

[Dan54]

I've said as much in the past. But that's not where RA has been proposing going forward. The move to a independent management structure is to develop it as a commercial venture.

And the NZR said at the very beginning they just want a comp to have a format etc and then get an outside company in to run it. I can't actually see what is so different about what both Unions want. I know there was a suggestion of cutting a team, have never heard it said as a deal breaker, when I first heard Robinson talk about it, he said all teams had to be financially sound and able to add to comp. Isn't that what we would expect in a Aus domestic comp? Or have Aus rugby suddenly come into plenty of coin that we don't know about?

 

[hoggy]

I think the RA are very broke, 20 years of Super rugby has ensured that. But I think there also coming to the realization that signing up to a TT comp for 2021 with Co-Vid possibly lurking around every 2nd corner as not quite the wisest move going forward.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

What is telling was the bit on how he wants it to be structured. Independent of the Unions designed to attract investment.

Yes this is where Hamish’s commercial skillset and experience setting up the hugely successful big bash competition provides critical skills as key element of plans for rugby is creating the right commercial product that attracts investment dollars as you attract solid investment and right commercial backers. The independent commission is also creating the right governance model that can avoid being crippled by politics of unions.

In Hamish we trust and he would know how to get right people around the table to create a successful sporting competition as unlike others he has actually done this and brings street cred.

 

[Dan54]

Well. Alan Ala'alatoa recently said in an interview that Super Rugby Au has been producing the most physical Rugby he and a lot of his fellow players have ever played. And they are loving it. The attrition argument is steeped in the all encompassing ABs first mentality of NZ Rugby. In which despite how popular SRA has been it's still looked upon as a mere trial system as per the lack of a finals system for the ABs.

Actually mate, I not sure why I didn't notice your one glaring mistake in this post as for a trail system because of lack of finals, in NZ they got a little thing this year called North/South where I think anyone wanting a trial will see one!

 

[Dan54]

I think the RA are very broke, 20 years of Super rugby has ensured that. But I think there also coming to the realization that signing up to a TT comp for 2021 with Co-Vid possibly lurking around every 2nd corner as not quite the wisest move going forward.

Yeah well, could just because they had more teams in the said super comp than they could afford.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

And the NZR said at the very beginning they just want a comp to have a format etc and then get an outside company in to run it. I can't actually see what is so different about what both Unions want. I know there was a suggestion of cutting a team, have never heard it said as a deal breaker, when I first heard Robinson talk about it, he said all teams had to be financially sound and able to add to comp. Isn't that what we would expect in a Aus domestic comp? Or have Aus rugby suddenly come into plenty of coin that we don't know about?

Dan

Is it more how you design a commercially successful competition and leaving all the status quo opened to be challenged and open to change or is it looking at how status quo teams and structures fit into a new proposed competition. I suggest the NZ proposal was more the latter and how it would best support the All Blacks development and Brand. To me it just lacked the vision of what we needed and did not have the sort of dialogue Twiggy and his team had with rugby or some of the left field thinking coming from Hamish and others (considering marquees / imports, making players who play for other teams in super rugby eligible for national selection etc). If NZRU seriously are interested in being part of what could be the best competition in the world they need to be prepared to put those things on the table.

Ps twiggy in his grr consulting team he used in designing GRR has some people with impressive sporting consultant and commercial experience and do wonder if he has has those persons involved in discussions on alternative sporting models alongside Hamish own network

 

[hoggy]

Yeah well, could just because they had more teams in the said super comp than they could afford.

"just" I think you could write a book on what was wrong with Super Rugby.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yeah well, could just because they had more teams in the said super comp than they could afford.

Dan being in a crap super rugby designed competition was really the reason they could not afford many teams. Get the Product and competition right that appeals to fans then you can afford more teams. Square peg round hole problem

 

[hoggy]

Bloody nice day in Christchurch, Go highlanders