Where to for Super Rugby?

[hoggy]

Hi Dan

I think the problem with super rugby was not a proper regional competition with South Africa and Argentina in the mix. Where we differ is super rugby failed by not being a regional competition that focussed on franchise model and more free flow of players and looking at how can make teams across a regional footprint stronger rather then a talent development focussed competition for the all blacks. NZRU as per the marketing expert take the lion share of the blame for this as they have the depth others don’t and as per the marketing expert they have lacked the vision how they could utilise that to make a better regional super rugby competition. But in fairness maybe with Sanzaar with South African involvement nzru hands were tied but now with South Africa and Argentina out of the mix now they can take the leadership and have the Vision for what is required to create a truly great regional super rugby competition we deserve.

Anyhow I know this is where we differ and I have to respect you and I have different views on this and neither seem likely to change our views on this. What we do agree though on though is yes let’s have a independent qualified commission who can design and run a competition and not having competing other agendas interfere with their approach to this. They can then work with RA and NZRU to try and align them on what is best for the competition. They would then decide with appropriate advise what is the best design for the competition and then try and work with RA and NZRU to make it work. Sounds easy doesn’t it (lol)..yes I think this independent body would have their work cut out.

Or alternativy, just run seperate cmpetitions alongside eachother and in Australia's case invite PE investment, you would soon achieve a far better competition.
A committee set up by a comittee with its own agendas, yep good luck with that.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Or alternativy, just run seperate cmpetitions alongside eachother and in Australia's case invite PE investment, you would soon achieve a far better competition.
A committee set up by a comittee with its own agendas, yep good luck with that.

You may be right Hoggy....investing in our own competition may be the best path and play nz teams in champions league. I think per Dan we are likely to see a conference system though under a TT umbrella.

I think though the only evidence we have in oz footy market of what works is our own domestic competition
So I can see where you are coming from. So have that then play champions league with nz and Japan sides. We should maybe just accept nzru and RA have different agendas and do our own thing. Does not seem the path RA heading down though.

 

[Adam84]

I agree it needs to be put in the hands of a seperate board, but they have to have a comp to run. I think maybe one of the problems is unlike when Super was originally set up the individual boards are tied into Broadcast arrangements, where as originally Sanzar (as it was then) sold the rights etc. But SA felt they more money was coming form there so everyone had to set up own TV agreements. That isn't going to change as everyone signed in now.

Waiting to establish an independent board after the tournament has been designed, and funding arrangements established defeats the whole purpose.

An independent board is required during the establishment of the competition to ensure that a long term holistic approach is taken to the tournament design and not one which serves self-interest or short term goals.

 

[Adam84]

What Super Rugby should be is the equivalent of the AFL/NRL with a commission governing the game, and RA/NZRU simply as equal owners and a representative on the board.

 

[Dan54]

Waiting to establish an independent board after the tournament has been designed, and funding arrangements established defeats the whole purpose.

An independent board is required during the establishment of the competition to ensure that a long term holistic approach is taken to the tournament design and not one which serves self-interest or short term goals.

Well there is no board putting up there hand and looking for a rugby comp to run , so guess we are all clutching at straws, unless someone here knows of one that is waiting? It's like the idea of PE money to run teams. thats all just a pipe drem as they just not around!

 

[Dan54]

What Super Rugby should be is the equivalent of the AFL/NRL with a commission governing the game, and RA/NZRU simply as equal owners and a representative on the board.

Well that's what it would be surely, same as Sanzaar was commission running the game with SA, NZ and Aus all equal partners , that is nothing new, just what we always had.
So you want what we had? And I think it what we getting anyway, there will be a board set up to run the comp anyway.
you have just put up 2 posts saying exactly opposite to each other, which do you want?

 

[Adam84]

Well there is no board putting up there hand and looking for a rugby comp to run , so guess we are all clutching at straws, unless someone here knows of one that is waiting? It's like the idea of PE money to run teams. thats all just a pipe drem as they just not around!

Dan you don't find a board to put their hand up.
You establish a constitution, framework and bylaws of how that board is to operate and how members are elected, it's driven top down and needs to be done by NZRU/RA.

 

[Adam84]

Well that's what it would be surely, same as Sanzaar was commission running the game with SA, NZ and Aus all equal partners , that is nothing new, just what we always had.
So you want what we had? And I think it what we getting anyway, there will be a board set up to run the comp anyway.
you have just put up 2 posts saying exactly opposite to each other, which do you want?

No SANZAAR certainly was not that Dan, SANZAARs executive committee is made up entirely of the governing bodies they represented and was nothing more then an extension of those individual unions. SANZAAR had no independent directors and never owned content it was simply a medium to broker between parties.

The example of the AFL/NRL is of an independent commission to govern Super Rugby, members elected and appointed independently of RA/NZRU. RA/NZRU can still own the competition as an asset, and hold a minority position, but the majority vote should be determined by independently elected commissioners.

 

[Dan54]

Dan you don't find a board to put their hand up.
You establish a constitution, framework and bylaws of how that board is to operate and how members are elected, it's driven top down and needs to be done by NZRU/RA.

Great, mate we agree, just you said an independant board should set up the comp, miles too late for that to happen, and other thing is an independant board may decide there is only room for say 4 Aus teams,(or NZ etc) to make iy a high quality comp, would everyone be happy, I suspect not. but the very fact it si driven from the top down stops it being independant, mush as I agree would be great, I suspect many who are agreeing with the idea may not like how the board sees a comp run.
And do add NZR and RA would have to then throw out all broadcasting deals etc, not going to happen I think.

 

[Adam84]

Great, mate we agree, just you said an independant board should set up the comp, miles too late for that to happen, and other thing is an independant board may decide there is only room for say 4 Aus teams,(or NZ etc) to make iy a high quality comp, would everyone be happy, I suspect not.

No, i don't think we are agreeing at all, it's never too late to establish effective governance

 

[Dan54]

No, i don't think we are agreeing at all, it's never too late to establish better governance

We agree an independant board should run the comp don't we? I think it would be great, but then we would have to go with number of teams that the board thinks make a good comp etc.

 

[Adam84]

We agree an independant board should run the comp don't we? I think it would be great, but then we would have to go with number of teams that the board thinks make a good comp etc.

We agree an independent board is required, we disagree about when it should be implemented.

If your concern is the number of teams then as its founded you can simply grant a license to operate in perpetuity, include the clubs as owners in the league, or include bylaws about number of votes required for decisions related to culling a team. All things done in other leagues and pretty common practice.

 

[dru]

The Board should also dictate how team locations are chosen, how players are made available, and what the compensation is to each team. Also negotiate broadcast earnings for the whole comp, dictate spending caps and choose the funds available to each team. Barring possible incentives in cases like new teams, you’d expect the teams to be funded equally.

I can’t see NZRU agreeing to any of it and suggest it’s time to move on.

 

[hoggy]

https://www.fijivillage.com/news/Co...r-the-Fijian-Drua-is-close---Thorburn-4r8fx5/

Well it looks like Fiji are close, with Aus as its base.

 

[Dan54]

The Board should also dictate how team locations are chosen, how players are made available, and what the compensation is to each team. Also negotiate broadcast earnings for the whole comp, dictate spending caps and choose the funds available to each team. Barring possible incentives in cases like new teams, you’d expect the teams to be funded equally.

I can’t see NZRU agreeing to any of it and suggest it’s time to move on.

I can't see RA agreeing to that. Can you see RA saying to Stan, we cutting what we giving you to broadcast? Really you think that will happen? not sure how a board is going to tell anyone who is available, are they going to tell Reds to give Rebels & Tahs players to make them stronger? I suspect you are just trying to make it impossible to have a board run the comp, but that's ok, I still think a board will be formed to run the comp regardless.

 

[Adam84]

I can't see RA agreeing to that. Can you see RA saying to Stan, we cutting what we giving you to broadcast? Really you think that will happen? not sure how a board is going to tell anyone who is available, are they going to tell Reds to give Rebels & Tahs players to make them stronger? I suspect you are just trying to make it impossible to have a board run the comp, but that's ok, I still think a board will be formed to run the comp regardless.

Content output doesn't change, and RA/NZRU could still negotiate deals as a bundle with test rugby. It's no different to how property owners come together now and sell their properties as a package.

Dare i suspect all this talk is null and void because of the deal NZRU have done with PE anyway, NZRU commercial operations were all bundled together including the Super Rugby content and that's what PE has paid for.

 

[dru]

Content output doesn't change, and RA/NZRU could still negotiate deals as a bundle with test rugby. It's no different to how property owners come together now and sell their properties as a package.

Dare i suspect all this talk is null and void because of the deal NZRU have done with PE anyway, NZRU commercial operations were all bundled together including the Super Rugby content and that's what PE has paid for.

Seriously time to cut from the NZ Super Rugby thing.

 

[Dan54]

Content output doesn't change, and RA/NZRU could still negotiate deals as a bundle with test rugby. It's no different to how property owners come together now and sell their properties as a package.

Dare i suspect all this talk is null and void because of the deal NZRU have done with PE anyway, NZRU commercial operations were all bundled together including the Super Rugby content and that's what PE has paid for.

Um no the PE deal that is being talked about (but no deal done) is for All Blacks marketing only, someone is leading you astray mate. It has nothing to do with Super rugby clubs or comp who in NZ aren't actually part of NZR as such, in that they have no members on boards, or votes etc, it a little different to how RA operates. I really wonder where you got all this info about PE etc from. But I agree that everyone has already got tv deals done, and apologies when you agreed with Dru that the board should negotiate broadcast deal, I thought you were for it;
'Also negotiate broadcast earnings for the whole comp, dictate spending caps and choose the funds available to each team.'
But anyway enough about it, you obviously have got a fair bit of incorrect info on NZR and PE and how super clubs/franchises work anyway.

 

[Adam84]

Um no the PE deal that is being talked about (but no deal done) is for All Blacks marketing only, someone is leading you astray mate. It has nothing to do with Super rugby clubs or comp who in NZ aren't actually part of NZR as such, in that they have no members on boards, or votes etc, it a little different to how RA operates. I really wonder where you got all this info about PE etc from. But I agree that everyone has already got tv deals done, and apologies when you agreed with Dru that the board should negotiate broadcast deal, I thought you were for it;
'Also negotiate broadcast earnings for the whole comp, dictate spending caps and choose the funds available to each team.'
But anyway enough about it, you obviously have got a fair bit of incorrect info on NZR and PE and how super clubs/franchises work anyway.

Dan…
NZRU owns the commercial rights to ‘Super Rugby’ not the clubs. Super Rugby forms part of commercial component of NZRU. The commercial arm of NZR is what Silver Lakes has been approved to take an ownership stake in.

Silver Lakes will take 12.5% of all NZR Commercial revenue, including the broadcast value Super Rugby generated revenue. As you said yourself, the broadcast deal is bundled.

Basically, if it’s revenue on NZRU annual statement(Super Rugby broadcast & sponsorship revenue is), then it’s part of it. What won’t be part of it is ticket sales and sponsorship direct to the Super Rugby clubs.

If NZRU hasn’t made that clear, then that’s a bit deceitful and I feel sorry for you kiwis.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Well there is no board putting up there hand and looking for a rugby comp to run , so guess we are all clutching at straws, unless someone here knows of one that is waiting? It's like the idea of PE money to run teams. thats all just a pipe drem as they just not around!

Chicken and egg build a better designed competition and they will come.