World Rugby to introduce law trials

[waiopehu oldboy]

By now most of us will be aware that the Welsh RU are trialling six point tries & two point penalties & drop goals, and of course the NRC is being run using a different scoring system plus other law variations. World Rugby has now announced some other variations that will be trialled:

Penalties awarded after time has expired can be kicked to touch and the lineout will be played.

Teams can choose which advantage they want to play if a side infringes on multiple occasions.

No conversions after a penalty try, which is automatically worth eight points.

A maul must start to move within five seconds or the ball must be used.

A player who plays the ball while his foot is in touch but before the ball has crossed the plane of the touchline is deemed to have carried the ball into touch.

Scrum changes allowing a scrum-half to stand with his shoulder level with the centre of the scrum, promoting scrum stability.

The introduction of a five-metre line drop-out as an alternative to a five-metre scrum for a defending team.

No reference to the blights of the unlawfully-formed rolling maul or the milking of penalties at scrum time, these are presumably & hopefully going to be addressed by applying the existing laws more diligently (yeah, right).

Full press release & link to details of the changes here:

http://www.worldrugby.org/news/90108

 

[wamberal]

So apparently the Laws do need updating.


Good to hear.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Good to see the new law about taking the ball into touch. Will hopefully see the end of players standing dead in goal and then picking the ball up to win a scrum back where a kick originated.

5m line dropout could be another welcome change. A bit like League with the line dropout but defensive 5m scrums are very predictable. Win and kick for touch. Might be better for the defending team to get the ball back to the halfway with a good chase.

Also, good to see the value of the penalty goal being reduced. Two points for all goals a good idea, but I'd prefer the value of the try to remain at 5. Six points looks a bit excessive.

 

[Omar Comin']

Still remember the fierce debates about the point system changing for the NRC. Most of the people here were so dead against lessening the impact of penalty goals. As predicted it's had a good effect which has influenced these trials at WR (World Rugby) level. Fair chance SANZAR will adopt the new laws for Super Rugby next year too I reckon. In a few years people will watch replays of old games and think it was crazy penalty goals had so much value.

Pity they didn't include a couple of the other things like the time limit to set a scrum and removing the pedantic 'wrong blade of grass' refereeing of quick taps. But I think the new ones, like the 5m dropout and the new scrum laws sound good.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

<snip>
No conversions after a penalty try, which is automatically worth eight points.<snip>

This one makes so much sense. Saves time, speeds up the game. How many Penalty Try conversion attempts have ever been missed?

 

[Antony]

Still remember the fierce debates about the point system changing for the NRC. Most of the people here were so dead against lessening the impact of penalty goals. As predicted it's had a good effect which has influenced these trials at WR (World Rugby) level. Fair chance SANZAR will adopt the new laws for Super Rugby next year too I reckon. In a few years people will watch replays of old games and think it was crazy penalty goals had so much value.

Yeah, I'll admit I've always been on the side of the debate that preferred keeping the existing points systems, but I'm starting to admit that I might have been wrong. The NRC provides some very entertaining rugby.

 

[Thinker]

No body wants to watch kick-athons so great move. Likewise no body wants to watch scrum re-sets so once the penalty kicking thing is solved we need to then depower scrums so we don't have any resets.

We like more tries so maybe if we drop a couple of players we'll open more space and the game will be more attacking and free flowing.
And no one wants to see the ref have such a huge impact on the game so let's clear up any confusion around the breakdown interpretations and just get rid of them all together.

Imagine if they got rid of goal keepers in soccer how many more goals they would score.

I actually don't mind an 8 point try and convo but I think the balance isn't right at 2 point penalties. Increase the value of the try but keep the penalties 3 points (or make all kicks 3 points). The impact won't be the same as the NRC because the defence would be better and a 2 point penalty isn't a deterrent, especially to cynical teams.

The NRC would be played the way it is even under the old point system because thrown together teams are always poor defenders in all sports. Just because a team turns down a penalty shot doesn't mean they will score, it just happens a lot now because no team seems to be able to defend.

 

[Omar Comin']

No body wants to watch kick-athons so great move. Likewise no body wants to watch scrum re-sets so once the penalty kicking thing is solved we need to then depower scrums so we don't have any resets.

We like more tries so maybe if we drop a couple of players we'll open more space and the game will be more attacking and free flowing.

And no one wants to see the ref have such a huge impact on the game so let's clear up any confusion around the breakdown interpretations and just get rid of them all together.

Yours is an already lost argument. If anything the set piece and breakdown become more important under these variations because you get more of them.

The impact won't be the same as the NRC because the defence would be better and a 2 point penalty isn't a deterrent, especially to cynical teams.

The 2 point penalty isn't the deterrent, the deterrent is conceding possession and territory to the other team, having to defend close to your line and if you infringe cynically, receiving yellow cards. A yellow card is a bigger deterrent than a 3 point penalty goal. What people want to see is more actual rugby being played, by incentivising tries you simply see more rugby and less goal kicking. What the NRC has shown is that a high value penalty goal isn't necessary as a deterrent. There's no need for the game to stop for a couple of minutes every 2nd or 3rd infringement.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yours is an already lost argument. If anything the set piece and breakdown become more important under these variations because you get more of them.

I think you missed the sarcasm.

It was the old classic let's turn it into rugby league suggestion.

 

[Omar Comin']

I think you missed the sarcasm.

It was the old classic let's turn it into rugby league suggestion.

Yeah I know - what I mean is that the 'it's going to turn into rugby league' thing is rubbish. It's the classic argument people have against any sort of change to the laws.

 

[Braveheart81]

What would be interesting is seeing the NRC variations played at a higher level at least a couple of times. I.e. by teams that can defend.

There's definitely a balancing act. The NRC arguably has too many tries scored and to an extent that devalues a try and the excitement the audience gets when one is scored.

 

[Slim 293]

Yeah, I'm still not sold on the points system in the NRC..........

More tries doesn't necessarily equate to better rugby, and some of the massive score lines we're seeing is a bit ridiculous.

 

[Omar Comin']

There's like 9 tries a game on average. It's not that crazy. In higher levels of rugby you'd maybe have something like 6.

I think you'll still have more tries at any level under this points system than you do under the current one. But the tries aren't really the point, the point is to see more action - more running, more rucks, more scrums, more lineouts etc. More endeavour.

The smallest difference would be in the ITM Cup (and NZ Super Rugby games) because NZ teams already play so positively. But compare typical Australian derby's in Super Rugby to the NRC and it's chalk and cheese in terms of approach.

 

[Dan54]

Ok Ok, I from the school ,I love my rugby like it is, so if it ain't broken, don't f******* fix it! I agree it great watching NRC where everyone throws ball around and defence is secondary, but hell ITM cup has plenty of open rugby under existing laws!!

 

[wamberal]

Ok Ok, I from the school ,I love my rugby like it is, so if it ain't broken, don't f******* fix it! I agree it great watching NRC where everyone throws ball around and defence is secondary, but hell ITM cup has plenty of open rugby under existing laws!!

Do you like to see games won and lost on the back of totally random decisions by referees like Poite?

 

[Braveheart81]

Do you like to see games won and lost on the back of totally random decisions by referees like Poite?

Are there any team sports that are immune from bad refereeing decisions?

 

[Strewthcobber]

It's actually worth going to the site and downloading the pdf because there's quite a few law changes there including some pretty significant changes to the engagement and feeding of the scrum

 

[wamberal]

Are there any team sports that are immune from bad refereeing decisions?

Not quite the point, though, is it?


The scrum used to be a means of restarting play after one side made an error. The side that did not make the error was supposed to have the advantage.


That has all changed, the scrum has gradually expanded in importance to the point where it sometimes becomes the game within the game. If nothing is done we will get to the ridiculous stage where the side with the "dominant" scrum (or the cleverest technicians) can win on the back of their own knock-ons. Try explaining that to a kid who has grown up watching loig.


I care about the future of the game, and I am certain that endless resets, and arbitrary game-changing decisions on the minutiae of the scrum are not the way of the future.

William Webb Ellis picked up the ball and ran with it. Good to see Whirled Rugby inching slowly back to a realisation that this is the essence of the game, not bullshit slow motion nonsense like the overblown scrum and the boring rolling maul.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

<snip>

That has all changed, the scrum has gradually expanded in importance to the point where it sometimes becomes the game within the game. If nothing is done we will get to the ridiculous stage where the side with the "dominant" scrum (or the cleverest technicians) can win on the back of their own knock-ons. Try explaining that to a kid who has grown up watching loig.

<snip>

In the "olden days" when the yapping cheating runt halfbacks had to feed the scrum by rolling the ball in on the centre line of the scrum, a lightning quick opposition hooker could grab a few tightheads and win possession for their team "on the back of their own knock-ons".

Also back then when studs were nailed to the base of leather soled BLACK boots, a knock-on was ruled if the player didn't catch the ball at first attempt. There were a lot more scrums for knock-ons then. Don't get me started on rucking the ball with the foot, and zero use of hands when the ball was on the deck in a ruck. Passing off the deck to a supporting player was a penalty.

Oops, my rose coloured spectacles are misting up from nostalgia and selective recollections ... ... ...

 

[Slim 293]

There's like 9 tries a game on average. It's not that crazy.

No, that's definitely crazy...........

In fact it makes the bonus point system redundant..........