Yet another scrum debate...

[TOCC]

Yes i know its been done to death, and i am a prop/backrower so im pretty passionate about the scrum debate..

Issue:Apart from been a blight on the game repacking 5 or 6 times for a single scrum, its also a injury risk..

Solution:
Opposing front rows bind first and then locks and back row bind

Pros:
-Maintains the competitiveness and physicality of the scrum
-Removes the risk of collapse on engage
-Reduces the complexity of the 'engage'

Cons:
-We want to maintain the competitiveness of the scrum, this may potentially diminish that
-Going to place greater emphasis on the scrum half feeding the ball straight and subsequently the hooker
-Going to be interpreted as 'de-powering' of the scrum by the usual suspects

Currently there is supposed be 'no push before the ball is in' so essentially there shouldn't be much difference, we all know the reality of the situation, the scrum is won or lost on the engage.

 

[Skippy]

I'm not sure what the solution is... but the curent problems with scrums around the world needs to be addressed. Nowadays it's all about the 'hit'. If you don't get it right or get the 'hit' you want... collapse and get another chance.
Look back at the scrums of the 70s and 80s were teams bound together at the scrum and waited for the ball to come in before pushing. Although they appear to be 'unstable' and a bit loose they are certainly more unstable nowadays when you have 900 plus kilos smashing into anoher 900kgs and all dropping to the floor the moment a prop doesn't get the engage or impact he wants.
The wording of the scrummaging sequence must be changed also. The mere saying of the word 'pause' is a pause and should not be followed by another 'pause' period. Of course they do this to slow things down but when your a prop with 800kgs behind you I guess it's not easy to be hanging on a knife edge!
The word 'engage' needs to go also. It's got two syllables and it begs the question, when does a prop engage? On the hearing of the 'en' or at the completion of the world 'gage'??
Again, these don't help with the current scrum problems.
I fear another issue is that from memory under 18's are not allowed to push, after the world went mad with fears of neck injuries in the 90's. But by doing this, a whole generation of Aus rugby players (front rowers) went off and joined colts or went straight to grade and were all of a sudden packing in proper scrums and thus never grew up with the right coaching, technical skills and understanding etc.
It was overkill and has not served Aus rugby well in the front row department. Of course there are other contributing factors also to our decline and decline as a scrummaging nation.
I'm not sure what the solution is but whilst scrummaging is an important part of the game, people do not want to go and watch scrums going down and being repacked all night, or penalties deciding games for scrummaging silly buggers.

 

[Sully]

I think it's easy to fix.

• Get the ref to stand in front of the tunnel.

• They can say whatever they want to say to get the 2 packs together.

• He must make them touch shoulders instead of finger tips

• He stays there and makes certain everyone is packed straight and their binds are correct
• when the scrum is stable he steps back and tells the Halfback to feed the scrum

Now the Hit is a waste of time and energy. Back in the day you had to wait till a srum was stable before you could feed it. Why did we go away from this?

 

[Sully]

I have done some research to prove my point. Firstly the scrum must be stationary before the ball is fed in

Stationary and parallel. Until the ball leaves the scrum half’s hands, the scrum must be
stationary and the middle line must be parallel to the goal lines. A team must not shove the
scrum away from the mark before the ball is thrown in.
Sanction: Free Kick

Secondly the Props must bind on the back or sides of their opponent. not the arm or shoulder.

Binding by loose head props. A loose head prop must bind on the opposing tight head
prop by placing the left arm inside the right arm of the tight head and gripping the tight
head prop’s jersey on the back or side. The loose head prop must not grip the chest, arm,
sleeve or collar of the opposition tight head prop. The loose head prop must not exert any
downward pressure.
Sanction: Penalty kick

Binding by tight head props. A tight head prop must bind on the opposing loose head prop
by placing the right arm outside the left upper arm of the opposing loose head prop. The
tight head prop must grip the loose head prop’s jersey with the right hand only on the back
or side. The tight head prop must not grip the chest, arm, sleeve or collar of the opposition
loose head prop. The tight head prop must not exert any downward pressure.
Sanction: Penalty kick

The only other change I would make is to ensure that props jerseys are loose enough to grab. besides the fact that 120Kg guys shouldn't wear skin tight clothes it makes it harder to get a good bind in a scrum.

So I have fixed the scrum problems by enforcing the current laws. amazing what happens when the laws are followed and not the refereeing interpretations.

 

[Skippy]

Fair point re jerseys. I think that's another issue. Perhaps whilst teams now wear 'fitted' jerseys, front rowers should wear something in between the old style and the new style so that it assists with binding issues.
The reason the hit is so important now is because hookers don't strike but push and the 9 puts the ball in on the hit... so the scrum hits and drives and the ball rolls through. Your right, if the ref stood there and controlled the engage sequence and then stepped back, it would be different. Would it work, I'm not sure. You would still have the 'hit' and thats the problem I feel.
I think the big issue with 'enforcing the laws' is that we all know referees are just so inconsistent. My worst fear is a team will lose the WC final because a referee will blow a penalty for binding on the arm or something in the 79th minute despite having ignored it or failed to punish it through the previous 78 minutes. What a joke.
I don't know why the referee and touch judge don't take the front rowers from both teams aside before a game like they do at lower levels of amateur rugby (for safety reasons) and read them the riot act. Tell them that there will be no pushing before the ball comes in. 'Right... the first bloke we see binding on arms or dropping the scrum will be going to the bin.... whether it be the 1st minute or 79th minute... we and the crowd are not here to watch you blokes f**( around for 80 minutes so be warned..." and then actually go out and back it up. I'm pretty sure things will change quickly after that.