Wallabies 2019 Thread

[Brumby Runner]

Being compared to Rory Arnold is probably the harshest critique ever of Israel Folau.

You would think that the better skills that DHP and Banks apparently have in most areas of the game would make them stand out well above Folau who is seemingly a one or two trick pony.

I certainly do think DHP's skills at fullback make him a better all round No 15 than Izzy. But Izzy's skills make him an excellent option at No 14. I wouldn't have Tom Banks in the squad at all this year.

 

['Tattsy'TaylorFan1]

The thing with credibility is that, once gone, it's very hard to get back.

What's your Wallabies XV mate?

 

[Rebels3]

I’m going with the following after 6 rounds

1. Sio
2. Fainga'a
3. AAT
4. Rodda
5. Jones
6. Dempsey
7. Pocock
8. Naisarani
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Folau
12. Kerevi
13. Hunt
14. Maddocks/Banks
15. Beale

16. Rangi (but prob won’t happen)
17. Slipper
18. Tupou
19. Arnold
20. Hooper
21. Salakaia Loto
22. Gordon
23. Hodge

 

[Dctarget]

1. James Slipper
2. Folau Fangia'a
3. AAA
4. Izack Rodda
5. Adam Coleman
6. LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)
7. Michael Hooper
8. Isi Naisarani
9. Will Genia
10. Quade Cooper
11. Jack Maddocks
12. Samu Kerevi
13. Tevita Kuridrani
14. Israel Folau
15. Dane Haylett-Petty

Easy.

 

['Tattsy'TaylorFan1]

C

I think the challenge for the Rebels will be what their plan B is when they aren't getting the ascendancy in the forwards that they need and/or face a defensive line that is pushing up fast enough to make playing so flat difficult. Cooper has been good but I don't think he's been amazing. The form of Genia and Meakes either side of him has certainly helped (and indeed Cooper has helped Meakes in particular). The Rebels need to regain that early season form they showed though. They didn't have a good tour to South Africa and prior to that I thought the wins against the Brumbies and Highlanders were pretty scratchy.

In relation to the Reds, I think the thing that is appealing to Cheika is the big ball carrying forwards like Salakaia-Loto, Tupou and Rodda. Those players coming round the corner and getting over the advantage line is essential for what he wants to do.

You're right Cheik is mesmerised by abrasive ball carriers. But they're not smart, experienced or seasoned enough to succeed at test rugby. I trace a lot of woeful 2018 Wallabies back to picking Timu in June over Michael Wells or Jed Holloway, Paenga-Amosa over Fitzpatrick and Coleman over Simmons. If you're going to play with Foley at 10, Beale at 12 and Folau at 15 like we did vs Ireland you need Waratahs forwards to complement them not cowboys.

 

[Dctarget]

C
You're right Cheik is mesmerised by abrasive ball carriers. But they're not smart, experienced or seasoned enough to succeed at test rugby. I trace a lot of woeful 2018 Wallabies back to picking Timu in June over Michael Wells or Jed Holloway, Paenga-Amosa over Fitzpatrick and Coleman over Simmons. If you're going to play with Foley at 10, Beale at 12 and Folau at 15 like we did vs Ireland you need Waratahs forwards to complement them not cowboys.

Query: How did you rate Rob Simmons pre 2018?

Also what is this bizarre theory that the Welshmen are smarter than the rest. You've got me curious, if NSW is obviously the smartest state, which is the dumbest? Can we have a ranking of the states with a small explanation next to each please.

 

[Braveheart81]

C
You're right Cheik is mesmerised by abrasive ball carriers. But they're not smart, experienced or seasoned enough to succeed at test rugby. I trace a lot of woeful 2018 Wallabies back to picking Timu in June over Michael Wells or Jed Holloway, Paenga-Amosa over Fitzpatrick and Coleman over Simmons. If you're going to play with Foley at 10, Beale at 12 and Folau at 15 like we did vs Ireland you need Waratahs forwards to complement them not cowboys.

The year the Waratahs won the comp they had a big abrasive forward back that won the collisions in both attack and defence. The Waratahs were the best Australian team last year in spite of their forward pack who struggled at scrum time in particular. They definitely exceeded expectations but the games where they struggled most were the ones where they got completely outmuscled (such as twice by the Lions).

Timu won't be in the picture. I don't really rate him either. He loses the ball too often in contact and he doesn't make enough hard metres in tight. He's far better in the wider channels which is not what we'd need from them.

I think the players I've highlighted above (LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Tupou and Rodda) are skilful players who are physical and abrasive (particularly LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and Tupou). Rodda is just all around a very good player.

 

['Tattsy'TaylorFan1]

Query: How did you rate Rob Simmons pre 2018?

Also what is this bizarre theory that the Welshmen are smarter than the rest. You've got me curious, if NSW is obviously the smartest state, which is the dumbest? Can we have a ranking of the states with a small explanation next to each please.

Simmons has won a Super Rugby title and played in World Cup final (which were both pre 2018). Not many others currently playing in Aussie rugby have done that I think.

Australia doesn't have a centralised system which means each state plays a different style of rugby. When you then bring a matchday Wallabies 23 together it makes it harder to achieve understanding if guys come from different systems.

Our wallaby openside (Hooper) is a Waratah, most regular fly-half (Foley) is a Waratah, most regular 12 (Beale) is a Waratah, most regular 15 (I Folau) is a Waratah, most capped and most experienced lock (Simmons) is a Waratah and our most capped and most experienced prop (Kepu) is a Waratah.

That to me is a spine of players which you build a Wallaby team on. It's easier to then complement them with New South Welshmen in a Wallabies team because they play with them at the Tahs and have a greater level of understanding amongst each other.

Looking ahead, I believe the 2023 World Cup will be the time for the Wallabies to be built around the Queensland Reds and players like Rodda, Hockings, Scott-Young, Wright, McDermott, Stewart, Tupou and Petaia.

 

[Braveheart81]

That to me is a spine of players which you build a Wallaby team on. It's easier to then complement them with New South Welshmen in a Wallabies team because they play with them at the Tahs and have a greater level of understanding amongst each other.

This is nonsensical.

The whole point of a test team is you pick your best players from all the teams because they don't just play for the one team.

On your selection criteria each test team would largely be made up of players from one club which is clearly not the case.

 

['Tattsy'TaylorFan1]

This is nonsensical.

The whole point of a test team is you pick your best players from all the teams because they don't just play for the one team.

On your selection criteria each test team would largely be made up of players from one club which is clearly not the case.

Righto

 

[Strewthcobber]

Would love if people expanded a bit more as to who they see playing what roll in the team. These days (across all pro teams) numbers on the back don't mean nearly as much as they used to.

Ie assuming it's a 1-3-31, who is in the pod and who is on the edge. And who is leading the defensive line?

 

[Strewthcobber]

Incidentally, that's one of the issues with having selectors seperate to the coaching staff.

Do you set down tactics and pick the team, or do you pick the team and work out your tactics?

 

[KOB1987]

Incidentally, that's one of the issues with having selectors seperate to the coaching staff.

Do you set down tactics and pick the team, or do you pick the team and work out your tactics?

It's an interesting one, I think you do a bit of both. You need to have a game plan / strategy first and pick the best players in each position, and then fine tune the game plan around that. E.g. kick passing to Folau in the corner mightn't be a part of the broad game plan but he's selected regardless of the game plan, so you incorporate it in. And then the playing group has to be able to fulfil all the roles of the game plan so there's fine tuning at the selection table as well.

 

[Slim 293]

C
You're right Cheik is mesmerised by abrasive ball carriers. But they're not smart, experienced or seasoned enough to succeed at test rugby. I trace a lot of woeful 2018 Wallabies back to picking Timu in June over Michael Wells or Jed Holloway, Paenga-Amosa over Fitzpatrick and Coleman over Simmons. If you're going to play with Foley at 10, Beale at 12 and Folau at 15 like we did vs Ireland you need Waratahs forwards to complement them not cowboys.

Alright, again............. which one of you is taking the piss?

 

[Slim 293]

Being compared to Rory Arnold is probably the harshest critique ever of Israel Folau.

You would think that the better skills that DHP and Banks apparently have in most areas of the game would make them stand out well above Folau who is seemingly a one or two trick pony.

I doubt that’s the harshest critique ever of Folau.......... at least, outside the footy field..........

 

[Strewthcobber]

It's an interesting one, I think you do a bit of both. You need to have a game plan / strategy first and pick the best players in each position, and then fine tune the game plan around that. E.g. kick passing to Folau in the corner mightn't be a part of the broad game plan but he's selected regardless of the game plan, so you incorporate it in. And then the playing group has to be able to fulfil all the roles of the game plan so there's fine tuning at the selection table as well.

The best coaches change their tactics depending on who they are playing too, which also means choosing different players. So are the selectors choosing the tactics too?

Players have roles not positions is a nice way of putting it, that's taken me 4 paragraphs to get too so far.

 

[USARugger]

It's an interesting one, I think you do a bit of both. You need to have a game plan / strategy first and pick the best players in each position, and then fine tune the game plan around that. E.g. kick passing to Folau in the corner mightn't be a part of the broad game plan but he's selected regardless of the game plan, so you incorporate it in. And then the playing group has to be able to fulfil all the roles of the game plan so there's fine tuning at the selection table as well.

I agree with this but fuck me if cross-kicks to Folau aren't the most obvious thing ever to implement (and especially in Cheika's system you don't really need to make any changes to the overall phase-play structure to set them up) and it took us ages to really start making use of it.

 

[KOB1987]

The best coaches change their tactics depending on who they are playing too, which also means choosing different players. So are the selectors choosing the tactics too?

Players have roles not positions is a nice way of putting it, that's taken me 4 paragraphs to get too so far.

I agree entirely. The numbers on the players' back pretty much correspond with how they are positioned on an attacking scrum and that's about it, with some obvious exceptions such as halfback Look at the skill set of the international hooker now compared with 30 years ago for example. I don't think the selectors should be given any responsibility of the tactics, that all falls on the coaching staff. The selectors are given the brief and give their 2 bobs on the best players to fill the roles, or thats how it should be IMO.

 

[Strewthcobber]

What is the selectors brief? Are they picking squads, 23s or XVs?

 

[KOB1987]

What is the selectors brief? Are they picking squads, 23s or XVs?

I think they would certainly provide input into wider squad inclusions but their primary brief would be for the match day 23