Waratahs 2021

[Rebels3]

You mean at the Brumbies with Sio and Slipper, rebels with Orr, Elof etc.

Maybe not the Brums but if the opportunity wasn’t there to play regularly then he’d definitely be at another team. Rebels would ditch Eloff or Orr at start of season for Bell if they had the opportunity. Welcome to professionalism

 

[Braveheart81]

The Tahs should absolutely be thinking that Bell and HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) could be their starting props for most of the next decade.

 

[Blackadder]

If you blokes think changing coaches is going to fix anything you are smoking the crackrock.

Just look at the squad for two seconds. Outside a couple of positions it's a colts team. I've only paid vague attention to the press but it seems like there is official recognition from HQ that they hedged on the squad for this season and it's backfired massively.

Not Penney's fault and replacing him won't fix it, even if the replacement coach was twice as good as Penney.

That is Penney's recruitment. He has stated that he made the decision on who went and who didn't.

Look at the rebels. Many of their players are journeymen. They matched the reds and Brumbies and beat the Force. The Tahs didn't.

The team selections are on Penney.

The game plan (Or lack of one) is on Penney.

The players look lost out there.

And as I have said before if it was just lack of experience then explain the beginning of last year with the experienced players and why we didn't make the finals with said experience in a five team comp?

 

[Drew]

The Force didn’t embarrass themselves with an NRC team last year.

 

[Braveheart81]

He has stated that he made the decision on who went and who didn't.

Is Jack Dempsey the only player of any quality who signed a new contract for 2021?

It's all well and good to suggest that they were Penney's decisions but if he's given a tiny budget, a list of players already contracted and then told to complete the squad it probably doesn't leave you many options to retain players who were coming off contract.

His "decisions" seem pretty clearly that if he wants to have a full squad he can't re-sign any of the remotely decent players.

 

[Derpus]

The Force didn’t embarrass themselves with an NRC team last year.

Journeymen > Kids

 

[Derpus]

The Tahs should absolutely be thinking that Bell and HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) could be their starting props for most of the next decade.

If they learn to scrummage. Still not convinced myself, particularly by HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes). Bell is obviously a baby in prop years so I sure he'll come good.

 

[Jimmyjam]

That is Penney's recruitment. He has stated that he made the decision on who went and who didn't.

Exactly........Just like I make all the purchasing decisions at my place....

..............................as long as we have the cash available................... and my wife says ok...!

 

[Blackadder]

Exactly....Just like I make all the purchasing decisions at my place..

..........as long as we have the cash available....... and my wife says ok.!

Or buy poorly

 

[Blackadder]

Is Jack Dempsey the only player of any quality who signed a new contract for 2021?

It's all well and good to suggest that they were Penney's decisions but if he's given a tiny budget, a list of players already contracted and then told to complete the squad it probably doesn't leave you many options to retain players who were coming off contract.

His "decisions" seem pretty clearly that if he wants to have a full squad he can't re-sign any of the remotely decent players.

Tiny budget? 4.5 million Dollars is Tiny???

Save One million dollars. How much as that is from Hopper? Still enough money to spend on some players. They don't have to be Wallabies. Penney chose Whetton, Caird and Wykes.

Again explain the failures last year.

 

[Derpus]

Tiny budget? 4.5 million Dollars is Tiny???

Save One million dollars. How much as that is from Hopper? Still enough money to spend on some players. They don't have to be Wallabies. Penney chose Whetton, Caird and Wykes.

Again explain the failures last year.

Who would you have picked?

 

[Derpus]

Tiny budget? 4.5 million Dollars is Tiny???

Save One million dollars. How much as that is from Hopper? Still enough money to spend on some players. They don't have to be Wallabies. Penney chose Whetton, Caird and Wykes.

Again explain the failures last year.

Yep, it is tiny. Half to a third of an average English clubs wage bill from five years ago: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...s-the-full-club-by-club-breakdown-and-verdict

These are the wages you are competing with if you want to sign someone like Skelton or Coleman.

 

[Jimmyjam]

If you're purchasing budget is 20% less than your competitors your going to get a corresponding reduction in playing strength.... it's not that complicated. That can be either slightly improved by astute selection or slightly worsened by poor selection, but either way you're not going to be able to bridge that gap without matching the paychecks.

Penney is playing the hand he was dealt.. the current state of affairs is inherited and has been a long time coming.

 

[7137]

The Force didn’t embarrass themselves with an NRC team last year.

They copped at least 2 floggings. 55 points or some such against the Reds and a doughnut against the Brumbies.

They fought well in some games, but let’s not pretend they were competitive the whole season.

 

[Blackadder]

It's funny how the same people attacked when the mention of how rubbish Gibson and Hore were doing are now trying to use their years as an excuse for Penney

 

[Braveheart81]

Tiny budget? 4.5 million Dollars is Tiny???

Save One million dollars. How much as that is from Hopper? Still enough money to spend on some players. They don't have to be Wallabies. Penney chose Whetton, Caird and Wykes.

Again explain the failures last year.

Less than half of the million.

He chose Whetton, Caird and Wykes because they were a) available and b) cheap. I'm not sure who else you think could have been signed instead. Wykes is clearly the best of these three players. Caird would be a minimum contract and Whetton not much higher.

The reality is that he needed to add about 10 players to the squad and the average budget per player wouldn't have been a lot over the minimum contract value.

Across a 36 person squad (which is the minimum number of full time contracts and the next the Waratahs signed), that is an average of $125,000 per player. The minimum salary is at least $80,000 per player.

 

[Jimmyjam]

It's funny how the same people attacked when the mention of how rubbish Gibson and Hore were doing are now trying to use their years as an excuse for Penney

Seriously.... no-ones making excuses for Penney at all.... however if you're stepping into a train wreck it's reasonable to acknowledge the state of affairs at the time you come in and make your judgements accordingly.

Gibson and Hore inherited the nucleus of a title winning side, arguably the best roster we've ever had, and left it a shambles...

What happened mate, did Penney run over your cat or something?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Swain a bench option at the Brumbies? Seems you don't spend a lot of time watching the Brumbies, Matt.

 

[Drew]

They

They copped at least 2 floggings. 55 points or some such against the Reds and a doughnut against the Brumbies.

They fought well in some games, but let’s not pretend they were competitive the whole season.

Yes they got dusted a few times, but they were preparing to play weaker opposition in the Singapore Shamrocks and the South China Whatever’s in GRR before being asked to play Super Rugby, they were put in a crap situation and showed up more often than not.

 

[Adam84]

Across a 36 person squad (which is the minimum number of full time contracts and the next the Waratahs signed), that is an average of $125,000 per player. The minimum salary is at least $80,000 per player.

Don’t think these figures are correct, number of full time members was cut under the new CBA, and part time contracts were introduced. Reds have 32 full time and 5 part time players not he EDS.

It has also been said elsewhere that the $1million underspend is an exaggeration