Adam84
Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Why wasn't the natural step to take the ANZ Championship full professional if it was doing exceedingly well?
Where to for Super Rugby?
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Why wasn't the natural step to take the ANZ Championship full professional if it was doing exceedingly well?
sendit
Bob Loudon (25)
Refer back to point 3 of my initial post about it
Stop being your usual shit stirrer self, seriously it gets old
Joe King
Dave Cowper (27)
Ok. Curious to hear your thoughts.
Joe King
Dave Cowper (27)
Hey, just floating an idea.
An idea floated preciously was to play Super Rugby AU and then filter our teams into 3 teams for Super Rugby TT against NZ's 5 in order to be more competative.
It was (rightly) pointed out that our 3 would be too rusty compared to NZ's 5 well-oiled machines by this stage.
However, what if swapped this around, and played this version of Super Rugby TT at the beginning of the season when all teams are starting off, and then use the rest of the season to pursue a domestic model?
If our 3 were Qld and NSW state of origin type teams, plus a barbarians type team, then we could play NZ's 5 in a simple round robin over 7 weeks. Maybe there wouldn't even need to be finals. Every game would be an event, like SoO games are.
Afterwards, we would revert to our Super Rugby teams.
I'm becoming less convinced by it as I type, but genuinely curious what others think.
An idea floated preciously was to play Super Rugby AU and then filter our teams into 3 teams for Super Rugby TT against NZ's 5 in order to be more competative.
It was (rightly) pointed out that our 3 would be too rusty compared to NZ's 5 well-oiled machines by this stage.
However, what if swapped this around, and played this version of Super Rugby TT at the beginning of the season when all teams are starting off, and then use the rest of the season to pursue a domestic model?
If our 3 were Qld and NSW state of origin type teams, plus a barbarians type team, then we could play NZ's 5 in a simple round robin over 7 weeks. Maybe there wouldn't even need to be finals. Every game would be an event, like SoO games are.
Afterwards, we would revert to our Super Rugby teams.
I'm becoming less convinced by it as I type, but genuinely curious what others think.
Tomikin
Simon Poidevin (60)
Because you alienate anyone not from Qld and NSW, and possible them as well.. The whole 5 into 3 just doesn't fly, there's no history of the teams no actual passion...
Tomikin
Simon Poidevin (60)
We are talking to rusted on supporters here, and your pretty much the only one suggesting that playing a full TT where we have short periods of time at the top is a good idea.
I'll go back to the uncertain of outcome is the biggest driver in sport. a TT doesn't provide that without some change in the shortterm, e.g. allowing player movement around the comp (although as some had posted maybe the depth player in NZ wouldnt want to come to Australia or make that much difference) We would also need to loosen up the amount of none Wallaby eligible players allowed in oz super teams.
I get where NZ are coming from with wanting a full TT, they literally can't grow the game much more then there current amount of teams.. Where Australia we have the potential for growth.. unless of course we tie our hands in a deal with another nation.
Adam84
Nick Farr-Jones (63)
What you’ve previously said didn’t answer the question hence why I asked.
Bloody hell mate relax, I simply asked you why Netball didn’t stick with the trans Tasman conception of it was so successful.
Adam84
Nick Farr-Jones (63)
A study conducted for the NRL expansion, some interesting stats for rugby.
Rugby has a lower number of ‘fanatics’ the other codes
54% of Rugby league ‘fanatics’ are fans of rugby Union, but only 19% of RL ‘fans’ are also fans of rugby union.
Most sports have had a ‘passion’ decline in the past 10 years, rugby has fared relatively well at a 2% decline, also surprisingly rugby has a greater percentage of fans in the 16-30yr old bracket then RL, AFL and Cricket.
Rugby Union passion decline 5% between 2016-2019
Comparison of broadcast rights
Sporting participants:
Rugby has a lower number of ‘fanatics’ the other codes
54% of Rugby league ‘fanatics’ are fans of rugby Union, but only 19% of RL ‘fans’ are also fans of rugby union.
Most sports have had a ‘passion’ decline in the past 10 years, rugby has fared relatively well at a 2% decline, also surprisingly rugby has a greater percentage of fans in the 16-30yr old bracket then RL, AFL and Cricket.
Rugby Union passion decline 5% between 2016-2019
Comparison of broadcast rights
Sporting participants:
Attachments
Adam84
Nick Farr-Jones (63)
https://origin.go.theaustralian.com...RL-Expansion-Analysis_Final-Report_170621.pdf
On the positivity front;
It also suggests rugby participants have grown quite a bit in 2017-2020 period,
Also there is a high conversion rate between participants of the game and fanatics of of the game
On the positivity front;
It also suggests rugby participants have grown quite a bit in 2017-2020 period,
Also there is a high conversion rate between participants of the game and fanatics of of the game
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
But there lies the problem - we as sports fans / customers are looking at the pro competition as to whether we engage with - and not the other product which is the international test product. And there lies the conflict as I am looking at the pro product which competes with nrl, a-league, afl and not the frigging international product. This is the problem as the pro competition super rugby product is being hijacked for another product which has no relavance on whether as sports fan I engage with the super rugby product. This is why rugby is still very amateur commercially as FFS if we had somebody independent running a super rugby product looking at the commercial interests of this product alone I would guarantee based on similar models run in other sporting codes worldwide it would be a way more successful then current, past and planed super rugby products us supposed customers have to endure.
I have had a gutful of my interest in pro rugby being hijacked by nzru who want to create a super rugby product designed for a different national test product. if ever a independant body gets appointed to design and run a super rugby product we may have a chance of moving rugby forward in Asia pacific. Otherwise we are well and truly fucked as latest installement of nzru super rugby bullshit has shown us.
Just get out of the way nzru and let an independent organisation design and run this without bullshit agendas of the nzru’s and RA may have (I am less harsh on RA as at least recently stated looking at independent Afl style commission to replace RA). And anybody who knows me here would have seen 18 months ago was way more critical of RA then NZRU. NZRU are definitely the obstacle for creating a successful super rugby product as they won’t focus just on what is required for that due to wanting to design this product for the separate outside international product.
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
Wtf does all black brand have to do with my interest in a super rugby pro product as I am not watching the all blacks vs wallabies product but tahs vs reds, reds vs blues etc etc... there lies the problem...and if they keep hijacking this product I have many alternatives such as club rugby or nrl, afl, a -league etc etc
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
Correct as smaller footprint, relevance and pathways would just decrease participation and interest. We need a basic footprint to be relevant and compete with other footy products with their expanded footprint.
dru
Tim Horan (67)
When you get to the point of recognising that is not happening, get back to me. Until then everything you suggest is based on a straw house.
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
Your a rusted on minority I reckon as I would rather go to watch club rugby then this latter TT shite just dished to us.
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
Also confirms my worse fears on threat of afl
Zero_Cool
Arch Winning (36)
Has anyone considered just promoting the best Shute Shield & Premier Rugby teams to SRAU?(Likely USyd and UQ, while they'd obviously not be up to Super Rugby standard out of the box I don't know they'd be too far behind the Waratahs and by adding both it'd give an instant rivalry.
That gives us 7 teams, meaning 3 games a week and a bye over 14 roudns. If you can snag a Fiji or Japan (nether could compete in a competition involving New Zealand but against Australian teams they'd be viable) that would give you up to 4 games a weekend over 18 rounds for double round robin.
That gives us 7 teams, meaning 3 games a week and a bye over 14 roudns. If you can snag a Fiji or Japan (nether could compete in a competition involving New Zealand but against Australian teams they'd be viable) that would give you up to 4 games a weekend over 18 rounds for double round robin.
hoggy
Trevor Allan (34)
You know what its not the worst idea in the world, but the issue i could see with Syd Uni are you really expanding on the Waratahs. What demographic are you chasing.
But on the flip side why not add a QLD side and Sydney side, rename the Reds and Waratahs add in Fiji and bingo.
But wait we're not playing NZ every single fucking weekend so sorry it will never ever ever ever work.
Zero_Cool
Arch Winning (36)
Initially you'd probably get to double dip on both the Waratahs & USyd. But honestly, that's not the end of the world, what Rugby Australia need right now is a product where they can get 3 to 5 games on TV every weekend, without getting flogged every other week. A product that fans will want to watch... Because what they don't want to watch is what happened in SRTT.
Everything good in SRAU was completely undone during SRTT because the Kiwi teams are too good. I think it's more or less impossible for the Aussie teams to get better -- better enough to genuinely competing for a Championship. So from an Australian Casual Fan stand point Rugby may as well not exist. I don't watch Soccer, but I saw the Roar were in the finals mix and you can bet your ass I watched the odd game whenever I saw it was on. Same with the Lions or the Bulls and for finals the Broncos (obviously I'm from Brisbane), sometimes I'll even get behind a team from Interstate if they're a team I like. But you know who I won't get behind -- a team who is losing, and especially a team who is getting flogged week in week out.
IMO The Issue with Super Rugby was never the time zones or conferences (they were issues but not THE issue) The Issue was that it wasn't a competitive competition. You need to at least feel like any team can win any week. And for Super Rugby I don't know that I've ever really felt like that was the case, except SRAU. The Rebels nearly beat the Reds, the Force nearly beat ... everyone, the Brumbies nearly beat the Reds... That is what will capture public attention not 'oh we have the best players playing in the best competition on the best teams' sure that helps but that's not what Casual Aussie Fans want.
Everything good in SRAU was completely undone during SRTT because the Kiwi teams are too good. I think it's more or less impossible for the Aussie teams to get better -- better enough to genuinely competing for a Championship. So from an Australian Casual Fan stand point Rugby may as well not exist. I don't watch Soccer, but I saw the Roar were in the finals mix and you can bet your ass I watched the odd game whenever I saw it was on. Same with the Lions or the Bulls and for finals the Broncos (obviously I'm from Brisbane), sometimes I'll even get behind a team from Interstate if they're a team I like. But you know who I won't get behind -- a team who is losing, and especially a team who is getting flogged week in week out.
IMO The Issue with Super Rugby was never the time zones or conferences (they were issues but not THE issue) The Issue was that it wasn't a competitive competition. You need to at least feel like any team can win any week. And for Super Rugby I don't know that I've ever really felt like that was the case, except SRAU. The Rebels nearly beat the Reds, the Force nearly beat ... everyone, the Brumbies nearly beat the Reds... That is what will capture public attention not 'oh we have the best players playing in the best competition on the best teams' sure that helps but that's not what Casual Aussie Fans want.
hoggy
Trevor Allan (34)
Zero Cool, I agree with you to a certain point, my biggest issue would be regards ownership/tribalism, people want to support a team, they want to belong and in doing so they will follow you through the good times and bad.
You can still be passionate even if your team is forever struggling, but your point about believing that your team can ultimately win.
Australian teams are just making up the numbers in Super rugby, the whole purpose of the competition ensures that really fan engagement is just an add on.
Thats why as you say it can never grow its limited fan base, it cannot engage the casual fan base.
You can still be passionate even if your team is forever struggling, but your point about believing that your team can ultimately win.
Australian teams are just making up the numbers in Super rugby, the whole purpose of the competition ensures that really fan engagement is just an add on.
Thats why as you say it can never grow its limited fan base, it cannot engage the casual fan base.
hifflepiff
Charlie Fox (21)
This right here. The only thing that matters is what will engage casual fans. Union die-hards are a small and rapidly shrinking portion of the population.
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