Australia v England: Match III, SCG, Sat 16th July 7.55pm AEST

[Marce]

Ditto Hooper, apart from last night, tests 1& 2 I thought he played poorly.

It wasn't his best series, you can describe it as average but at least he didn't make any silly mistake like Wilson in his first starter game

 

[Marce]

This is why we need a domestic comp, we need more than 5 sides so we have more professional opportunities for our players to keep them here.

The funny thing is that Ireland has the same system than RA, 4 professional franchises who eat all the resources. They have been average at best in all the professional Era but now they look like a powerful rugby nation.

I wonder if they have the same problems with Gaelic football and soccer competing for viewerships, supporters and sponsors like rugby in Australian Sport Market.

Is the system the main issue? Probably Ireland is a different market but there are some coincidences: Gaelic football is pretty similar to Aussie Rules. The most popular sport there but only played at professional level in one country. Maybe the different is that Irish soccer sucks competing against their European rivals and Irish rugby has been more succesful. At least at 6 nations level and now at world stage, so Irish rugby attracts more people and sponsorship than Irish soccer, I don't know.

Probably Aussie rugby is more similar to Irish soccer than Irish rugby but that's not 100% accurate cause soccer in Ireland looks like a popular sport.

Maybe the loyalty to the sport is more intense there. I mean, most of the supporters who want a domestic competition for Australia and leave Super Rugby have the argument that you need succesfull teams to attract people and sponsorship. Competing against Kiwis is quite difficult for Aussie teams, and nowadays is almost impossible to see an Aussie champion but that's what happen in Ireland, they don't have a domestic competition so Leinster and Munster aren't champions every season but despite that they have the support of their communities.

 

[Marce]

Ok mate, obviously incorrect and just had a look, seems quite a few are just paid under table (like rugby in old days) but basically you right, no way would enough get it to be a fully pro game! Just what I had been told, and as it by quite some way apparently biggest sport Ireland I guessed it was open. Think I recall Isaac Boss saying oit basically a catholic played sport and rugby was the protestant game, why it was so good when Rugby played at Croke park a few years ago, firt time he reckoned most Cathlolics has ever seen rugby.

Another different would be that Ireland is a tiny nation so to play each other at amateur and professional level is cheaper than in Australia. You have undeveloped places like Adelaide, Darwin, Perth, Cairns, Melbourne with tiny rugby communities but the distances are so long that make impossible to afford at amateur level or even at professional level to play each other.

Travels were one of the expensive issues for NRC if I can remember.

 

[Dan54]

The funny thing is that Ireland has the same system than Rugby Australia, 4 professional franchises who eat all the resources. They have been average at best in all the professional Era but now they look like a powerful rugby nation.

I wonder if they have the same problems with Gaelic football and soccer competing for viewerships, supporters and sponsors like rugby in Australian Sport Market.

Is the system the main issue? Probably Ireland is a different market but there are some coincidences: Gaelic football is pretty similar to Aussie Rules. The most popular sport there but only played at professional level in one country. Maybe the different is that Irish soccer sucks competing against their European rivals and Irish rugby has been more succesful. At least at 6 nations level and now at world stage, so Irish rugby attracts more people and sponsorship than Irish soccer, I don't know.

Probably Aussie rugby is more similar to Irish soccer than Irish rugby but that's not 100% accurate cause soccer in Ireland looks like a popular sport.

Maybe the loyalty to the sport is more intense there. I mean, most of the supporters who want a domestic competition for Australia and leave Super Rugby have the argument that you need succesfull teams to attract people and sponsorship. Competing against Kiwis is quite difficult for Aussie teams, and nowadays is almost impossible to see an Aussie champion but that's what happen in Ireland, they don't have a domestic competition so Leinster and Munster aren't champions every season but despite that they have the support of their communities.

Yep Irish union are doing things right, we see comments that they have more money to pay there Leinsters etc, but that is because they know their budget and don't have more teams than they can afford. They also 2nd and 3rd tier comps that help feed players up the chain I think.
I not in anyway saying the system would work in Aus or anywhere else, just seems a good system, have as many top div clubs as you can afford and then something like 50 clubs in 3 divisions, only playing 2 pro players at anytime.

 

[dru]

Awful lot of Irish endemic sports on this Wallaby game thread.

 

[Rebel man]

The funny thing is that Ireland has the same system than Rugby Australia, 4 professional franchises who eat all the resources. They have been average at best in all the professional Era but now they look like a powerful rugby nation.

I wonder if they have the same problems with Gaelic football and soccer competing for viewerships, supporters and sponsors like rugby in Australian Sport Market.

Is the system the main issue? Probably Ireland is a different market but there are some coincidences: Gaelic football is pretty similar to Aussie Rules. The most popular sport there but only played at professional level in one country. Maybe the different is that Irish soccer sucks competing against their European rivals and Irish rugby has been more succesful. At least at 6 nations level and now at world stage, so Irish rugby attracts more people and sponsorship than Irish soccer, I don't know.

Probably Aussie rugby is more similar to Irish soccer than Irish rugby but that's not 100% accurate cause soccer in Ireland looks like a popular sport.

Maybe the loyalty to the sport is more intense there. I mean, most of the supporters who want a domestic competition for Australia and leave Super Rugby have the argument that you need succesfull teams to attract people and sponsorship. Competing against Kiwis is quite difficult for Aussie teams, and nowadays is almost impossible to see an Aussie champion but that's what happen in Ireland, they don't have a domestic competition so Leinster and Munster aren't champions every season but despite that they have the support of their communities.

Gaelic is an amateur game, so what’s the pull for Irish rugby players? What can they offer that clubs in the All Ireland league can’t?

Also they don’t have 16 professional rugby league clubs operating in the same market actively poaching players and a further 18 fully professional Aussie Rules clubs fighting for juniors.

Once our juniors end up in league 9 times out of 10 they are lost for good.

 

[fatprop]

Thats a little unfair on Foley. He used to make a lot of line breaks and pop up in support often, finishing tries. The rest of his game was not the best. Lolesio is the opposite and doesn’t have the keys to the players outside him.

The both underplay and get the ball moving providing good service, yes Foley had a better running game, but Lolesio is probably a better defender and kicker (swings and roundabouts)

 

[Pfitzy]

Ultimately that was a game about little things we didn't execute. All in the first ten minutes:

- Frost charges down from the kickoff but can't regather - not really a crime as we're still in their half.
- Tupou leans in at the subsequent scrum and we get short armed rather than putting some pressure on (penalty to us thereafter)
- Lolesio missing a regulation 3
- Hodge totally fluffing a pass to Wright which was a tryscoring opportunity in the 22
(Paul Williams not calling "use it once" to an England maul going backward at the next lineout was, well.... )
- Tupou getting through the line and absolutely butchering a pass to Frost with the line wide open

Can't win games even against a mediocre England if you're not going to get your one percenters right.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Ultimately that was a game about little things we didn't execute. All in the first ten minutes:

- Frost charges down from the kickoff but can't regather - not really a crime as we're still in their half.
- Tupou leans in at the subsequent scrum and we get short armed rather than putting some pressure on (penalty to us thereafter)
- Lolesio missing a regulation 3
- Hodge totally fluffing a pass to Wright which was a tryscoring opportunity in the 22
(Paul Williams not calling "use it once" to an England maul going backward at the next lineout was, well.... )
- Tupou getting through the line and absolutely butchering a pass to Frost with the line wide open

Can't win games even against a mediocre England if you're not going to get your one percenters right.

Nice points. Can also add the kick out on the full that was taken back into the 22m. Fundamental stuff

The Wallabies left at least 15 points out there that only needed to be finished off. Then we were chasing the game the English defence aimed up.

Not sure if it has been written yet as I haven't popped on here for a few days but I thought Nic White had one of his more average games. Seemed panicked and frantic. English seem to know if we rush him he tends to jump around and eventually dig into the line leaving us without a half.

Rae Rae

 

[RugbyReg]

Yeah. Good picks Nick. And Whites decision to run it out from his line in the final stages of the first half, even forgetting what happened afterwards, was always a dumb one. Particularly when he’s picked on the strength of his kicking game.

 

[Wallaby Man]

Yep Irish union are doing things right, we see comments that they have more money to pay there Leinsters etc, but that is because they know their budget and don't have more teams than they can afford. They also 2nd and 3rd tier comps that help feed players up the chain I think.
I not in anyway saying the system would work in Aus or anywhere else, just seems a good system, have as many top div clubs as you can afford and then something like 50 clubs in 3 divisions, only playing 2 pro players at anytime.

Nice little stab there about budget. The IRFU brings in more money than RA because of the 6 Nations gold mine and the worlds most generous tax system for professional athletes.

If Aus were able to keep all their players, had the pick of local sporting talent best suited for contact sports and then pay for each team to have a few project players that are already identified as elite players, while the other countries in the same league bleed playing resources and cannot offer the same level of financial resources.

Australia are so similar to Wales and NZ and Ireland have the most similarities

 

[Dctarget]

Nice points. Can also add the kick out on the full that was taken back into the 22m. Fundamental stuff

That one was lineball. Wilson was lying on the 22, I thought as did Hodge and the rest of the team that he was in and so Hodge booted it out. Wasn't a miskick, was a misunderstanding.

 

[Wallaby Man]

That one was lineball. Wilson was lying on the 22, I thought as did Hodge and the rest of the team that he was in and so Hodge booted it out. Wasn't a miskick, was a misunderstanding.

that’s a no.9 call all day to kick out

 

[Dan54]

Nice little stab there about budget. The IRFU brings in more money than Rugby Australia because of the 6 Nations gold mine and the worlds most generous tax system for professional athletes.

If Aus were able to keep all their players, had the pick of local sporting talent best suited for contact sports and then pay for each team to have a few project players that are already identified as elite players, while the other countries in the same league bleed playing resources and cannot offer the same level of financial resources.

Australia are so similar to Wales and NZ and Ireland have the most similarities

Mate wasn't a stab at anyone, but I do think Ireland do it well, actually Wales do very similar to Ireland, they have cut teams to what they can afford, and run a secondary pro or semi pro comp. I not in anyway comparing it to RA (you really a bit defensive) or NZ, as I couldn't see it working in Aus as there no real teams already set up for a secondary 10-12 team comp and maybe the tyranny of distance would make it too hard. What Ireland and Wales are able to do is have a countrywide secondary comp (and with populations of 3-5 mill) basically using existing long term teams/provincial/town ie Pontpool etc which makes a difference. I think both countries have done it a well, and have made some unpopular decisions, but are starting to show sucess for it. As I say I don't see it working in Aus, as original structure etc not there, not through anyone's fault, just how rugby has grown in the country etc.
We can see some countries do things well for different reasons without being a comparison to how we do it down here. Even in England and France there are an awful lot of clubs that we hardly ever know or see that are semi pro, and have a few overseas pros in them, I had Nephew that played for a couple of seasons in Guernsey etc, couple of young fellas I coached (lol even WOB knows them) were players for Cambridge etc, it's a different system over there that they are getting worked out real well as professional rugby has become established. I not sure that NZR or RA have still quite got it worked out as well.

 

[Marce]

The IRFU brings in more money than Rugby Australia because of the 6 Nations gold mine and the worlds most generous tax system for professional athletes.

That's in part due the loyalty of their rugby community that sells out all the games played in Dublin. Italy can't take advantage of that cause their community doesn't support them buying tickets or watching on TV

 

[Pfitzy]

That one was lineball. Wilson was lying on the 22, I thought as did Hodge and the rest of the team that he was in and so Hodge booted it out. Wasn't a miskick, was a misunderstanding.

Like the 50/22 the week before, this was an incorrect call IMHO. The line belongs to the player. The player never "left" the 22. The ruck formed with last feet in the 22. Therefore we're inside the 22.

 

[Wallaby Man]

That's in part due the loyalty of their rugby community that sells out all the games played in Dublin. Italy can't take advantage of that cause their community doesn't support them buying tickets or watching on TV

The provincial crowds are the same as Aus crowds, just in smaller stadiums. Ticket sales don’t mean a lot these days unless it’s for an international game charged $100+ per ticket and 40k+ in the stadium. It’s so small on the revenue %, clubs would elect it to be the first part of revenue sacrificed. Gold Diggers podcast with David Bond goes a little bit through ticket sales etc.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Mate wasn't a stab at anyone, but I do think Ireland do it well, actually Wales do very similar to Ireland, they have cut teams to what they can afford, and run a secondary pro or semi pro comp. I not in anyway comparing it to Rugby Australia (you really a bit defensive) or NZ, as I couldn't see it working in Aus as there no real teams already set up for a secondary 10-12 team comp and maybe the tyranny of distance would make it too hard. What Ireland and Wales are able to do is have a countrywide secondary comp (and with populations of 3-5 mill) basically using existing long term teams/provincial/town ie Pontpool etc which makes a difference. I think both countries have done it a well, and have made some unpopular decisions, but are starting to show sucess for it. As I say I don't see it working in Aus, as original structure etc not there, not through anyone's fault, just how rugby has grown in the country etc.
We can see some countries do things well for different reasons without being a comparison to how we do it down here. Even in England and France there are an awful lot of clubs that we hardly ever know or see that are semi pro, and have a few overseas pros in them, I had Nephew that played for a couple of seasons in Guernsey etc, couple of young fellas I coached (lol even WOB knows them) were players for Cambridge etc, it's a different system over there that they are getting worked out real well as professional rugby has become established. I not sure that NZR or Rugby Australia have still quite got it worked out as well.

You make a lot of good points.

I've known many guys that have played for Doncaster, Ealing etc and it's a great place to get that game time that is needed. Some Premiership clubs loan their young players out similar to Soccer for the unrivalled development that comes from playing games instead of holding pads.

I see our geography as a huge issue in this. What's the answer.... I don't really know because you can't just decide that one of the states Club comps becomes that next level as it knee caps the other instantly. Does RA have the money to re jig the NRC....probably not and nor should they re introduce that model. Super Rugby A for me is the simplest method and let it naturally grow. NZ have the ITM cup and travel is not that big of an issue. In the UK League 1 Soccer clubs travel by bus for almost all trips and it can be across country and it's because they can. This is the 3rd tier but a lot of players can still earn equivalent salaries of Super Rugby players.

Rae Rae

 

[Slim 293]

Like the 50/22 the week before, this was an incorrect call IMHO. The line belongs to the player. The player never "left" the 22. The ruck formed with last feet in the 22. Therefore we're inside the 22.

Interesting, I didn't go back to check but watching live also thought they were good to kick it out and initial reaction was that Hodge did a good job...

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Interesting, I didn't go back to check but watching live also thought they were good to kick it out and initial reaction was that Hodge did a good job...

So did I. I don't mind that ref and usually they make it very clear to the half back but I don't recall hearing it. It is the players responsibility at the end of the day. I guess it's why its a big moment but not a moment that Hodge can have that makes me want to just walk into the Ocean.

Rae Rae