Sydney Subbies 2025

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

No - Blacktown are moving into a new league and start on 0 since they have no wins, draws or BPs in that competition.

That's the difference - Crofties and Knox earned those points in the division, Blacktown haven't started to play in it yet.

Looks like those games will now be replayed based off the draw. Mid week games are always fun especially the later you get in the season. Maybe they’ll choose double point games that have there own issues.

Looks like the first 2 rounds of Div 6 has been thrown out and the comp starts again this weekend with a new draw…

 

[Pfitzy]

Lot of precedent being set here. Is this the cut off for moving clubs or can it happen anytime in the season? As Pfitzy says can you be regraded half way through the season? As I said earlier what happens if Forrest don’t have colts in a few weeks? Or is it only missing Grade teams as the issue?
What happens to Barkers grade side? Hard to encourage growth when your playing all over the place in Halligans

If you'll remember Knox 2022 ran their Colts while Grade sat idle.

The Competition Rules actually set certain boundaries around Colts in several areas.

Will it happen again? Unlikely as it would have been a nightmare to figure out a way forward and doing it later in the year would need some kind of agreed parameters from the entire competition.

Regrading happens in other sports where competition levels are different year-to-year, moreso for those with set squad sizes.

 

[Pfitzy]

It is an unusual situation, but then we've had no shortage of those since COVID first hit.

Focus on the positives

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

I wonder what happens if it had of been Beecroft given the strength of there 1s?

 

[The Ghost of Bernie]

It is an unusual situation, but then we've had no shortage of those since COVID first hit.

Focus on the positives

Yes focus on the positives...

A bus trip to Blacktown has the potential for more adventures than a bus trip to the Hills.

 

[SubbiesSoftie]

What a day in Subbies world.... Old Barker removed from the Clark and Farrant competitions and only playing Colts. Blacktown moved up to play 2 grades in Division 3.

Glad to see subbies learning from their mistakes with Epping 2024.

 

[parkfootyenthusiast2]

Very interesting developments. I have many questions.

You have to wonder if this is 100% isolated to Barker's lack of ability to fill a second grade side, or if it's also got to do with the margin their first grade was conceding points through the first two weeks. If the latter, would we be in a different situation had they opened the season with say Hornsby and LCOI instead of Knox and Beecroft? Is a club better off fielding two grade sides and no colts in Div 3 or two grade sides and no colts? Either way somebodies not getting a game?

As it stands, their colts are still listed in the Div 3 colts competition, are they playing out of Blacktown (decent drive from Turramurra...) or are they a floating stand alone entity? Seems like an absolute mess either way. Wouldn't both sides going to Div 4 make more sense - currently one grade side and one colts side the requirement. Based on early season numbers is there any indication one of the Div 4 clubs could have fielded a second grade side?

As for the points debacle, I find it bemusing that Knox and Beecroft have probably lost players in hit outs against Barker in the opening two weeks for naught, and now likely have to travel to Blacktown with double points on the line. Indications out of Barker are that they gave multiple warnings to the Board that they would not be able to field the requisite number of teams and were largely ignored.

Seems like a relatively shambolic outcome across the board. For what it's worth, sad to see Barker in this state, not too long ago they were a reasonably competitive outfit in Division 1 and have made great strides with their womens outfit. A sign of the times.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

The ultimate question is what does this mean long term. I can’t see Barker Grade growing from playing the odd Halligans. I know the board will push them to try harder next year and find more players etc.
But if they don’t I assume they’ll go to Div 4 and we will have 2 teams in Div 3 (2 grades and colts) without a colts team if everything stays the same.
You could merge the two 2 team comps but that still leaves you with only 5 colts sides in a comp on there own…
Everyone will dismiss it now and say clubs will grow and the old division structure will be ok till we get to March next year and we are trying to pull another rabbit out of a hat to get competitions together below Div 1.

 

[The Dunning Effect]

Hey folks. First time, long time. I thought I'd jump on to answer any questions about Old Barker, and the situation we've found ourselves in. I'm at the coalface so have first hand knowledge. Fire away!

 

[The Dunning Effect]

Let's just say we were very transparent with the powers that be, since pre-season. And we are feeling extremely let down by what's transpired.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Hey folks. First time, long time. I thought I'd jump on to answer any questions about Old Barker, and the situation we've found ourselves in. I'm at the coalface so have first hand knowledge. Fire away!

All the best for the rest of the year mate. Hopefully the club can rebound and you can see some success with your Colties and Women’s this year.

Just wondering what Subbies reasoning was to dumping your 1s into the Halligans comp rather than just a straight swap with Blacktown into Div 6? At least then you’d have regular games for your 1s?

 

[parkfootyenthusiast2]

Hey folks. First time, long time. I thought I'd jump on to answer any questions about Old Barker, and the situation we've found ourselves in. I'm at the coalface so have first hand knowledge. Fire away!

You've always seemed to have a healthy amount of talented colts coming through, and your colts side seems to compete at the pointy end all year. What's been the struggle in keeping those blokes around trickling into the grade sides?

On that, have you noticed a drop off in the actual number of Colts coming through given the decline in school participation levels?

Are the grade players pleased with the 'demotion' or would they have been up for the challenge in Div 3 rest of season?

Is the plan to try and get a weekly Halligans game at the same location as your Colts and then run the women same day also?

Hope it all works out for you and we see the club back stronger next year.

 

[The Dunning Effect]

All the best for the rest of the year mate. Hopefully the club can rebound and you can see some success with your Colties and Women’s this year.

Just wondering what Subbies reasoning was to dumping your 1s into the Halligans comp rather than just a straight swap with Blacktown into Div 6? At least then you’d have regular games for your 1s?

Cheers Odyssey. Hopefully we can hang on to most of the grade that we've got and try to build for 2026. The difficulty will be having separate Colts and Grade playing locations now. We've only just resurrected Colts this year and it's going to be tough to build that club culture that keeps.those.young.guys around year on year when we're, for all intents and purposes, separate entities.

As for Subbies reasoning... it would be nice if they gave us one, let alone included us in the decision making. The course of events was that, after being pummelled by the 2 top dogs in Div 3, with our already lower than hoped for numbers we copped quite a few injuries over Round 1 and 2, so we were in a position this week where we couldn't safely put a grade team together. On Monday we emailed Subbies to tell them as such, then apparently they had their usual Monday night meeting, and decided to drop us and replace with Blacktown. No recourse, no questions.

I've been with the club a very long time and I'm extremely disappointed to say the least. And to be blunt, we shouldn't have been put in this situation in the first place. We knew early on in pre-season that things were less than optimal as far as our Grade recruitment and retention was going. We emailed Subbies in mid-February to ask that we be graded to a lower division because we couldn't fulfill our Grade obligations and, to be honest, we didn't want another year where our guys were beaten badly every week. We didn't hear back and despite repeatedly telling them and asking for clarification, in the end we remained in Div 3. And now this...

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Cheers Odyssey. Hopefully we can hang on to most of the grade that we've got and try to build for 2026. The difficulty will be having separate Colts and Grade playing locations now. We've only just resurrected Colts this year and it's going to be tough to build that club culture that keeps.those.young.guys around year on year when we're, for all intents and purposes, separate entities.

As for Subbies reasoning... it would be nice if they gave us one, let alone included us in the decision making. The course of events was that, after being pummelled by the 2 top dogs in Div 3, with our already lower than hoped for numbers we copped quite a few injuries over Round 1 and 2, so we were in a position this week where we couldn't safely put a grade team together. On Monday we emailed Subbies to tell them as such, then apparently they had their usual Monday night meeting, and decided to drop us and replace with Blacktown. No recourse, no questions.

I've been with the club a very long time and I'm extremely disappointed to say the least. And to be blunt, we shouldn't have been put in this situation in the first place. We knew early on in pre-season that things were less than optimal as far as our Grade recruitment and retention was going. We emailed Subbies in mid-February to ask that we be graded to a lower division because we couldn't fulfill our Grade obligations and, to be honest, we didn't want another year where our guys were beaten badly every week. We didn't hear back and despite repeatedly telling them and asking for clarification, in the end we remained in Div 3. And now this...

I think that’s the question that many on this forum disagree on. Just cause you’ve got 15 guys does that mean they are 1st Graders even if they are new players to the game or lower skill level…
Skill level needs to be factored in

 

[footy_footy]

I see the Div 6 draw on the subbies website is now looking a bit worse for wear - would it not benefit from the inclusion of Old Barker?
Can only play Mosman or Colleagues 6ths in Halligan so many times in a year!

I'm not doubting anything you are saying Dunning but always two sides to every story. Either way, surely it's in everyone's best interests to accommodate and support a club that's battling.

Can't help but feel how the Epping 2024 situation developed and ended last has driven this decision.

 

[Here To Do]

Hey folks. First time, long time. I thought I'd jump on to answer any questions about Old Barker, and the situation we've found ourselves in. I'm at the coalface so have first hand knowledge. Fire away!

Sorry to hear about the issues you've had. Seems maybe more indicative of Blacktown's relative strength in D6 than of yours (excluding injuries as you mentioned).

Would you put this down to the rigidity of Divs 5 and 6 being "Colts-less" comps and having you graded higher than Div 4? Seems like you maybe had the chance of fielding 1+1 in the Jeffrey and Radford but Subbies didn't want to relegate you?

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Can't help but feel how the Epping 2024 situation developed and ended last has driven this decision.

Yep let’s just watch clubs fold rather than help them grow potentially cause how dare they be successful.
If we never think outside the box there won’t be divisions for all these “hurt” teams to play in. No one wants to admit it but Subbies has been struggling for years and we are getting to that critical tipping point where if we ignore it numerous clubs will fold and therefore so too will divisions.

 

[footy_footy]

Yep let’s just watch clubs fold rather than help them grow potentially cause how dare they be successful.
If we never think outside the box there won’t be divisions for all these “hurt” teams to play in. No one wants to admit it but Subbies has been struggling for years and we are getting to that critical tipping point where if we ignore it numerous clubs will fold and therefore so too will divisions.

Damned if you do damned if you don't.

Certainly agree that things have reached the tipping point and a full scale review/restructure is needed (or at very least considered), that may even need external input or advice.

Off topic but looks like Merrylands have replaced Western Raptors in JJC - no harm done as round 1 was postponed for the raptors game. JJC div 2 draw still a week by week proposition though.

 

[MasterSergeant]

Yep let’s just watch clubs fold rather than help them grow potentially cause how dare they be successful.
If we never think outside the box there won’t be divisions for all these “hurt” teams to play in. No one wants to admit it but Subbies has been struggling for years and we are getting to that critical tipping point where if we ignore it numerous clubs will fold and therefore so too will divisions.

That’s a reasonably blanket statement… look at the examples set by Blueys, Waves, Mosman, HH and even the Breakers to a lessor extent. There are a number of clubs doing well with recruitment and retention in 2025. The challenge is for those Subbies clubs in the lower divisions to close the gap. Now I know that is easier said than done, but even Blueys was a multi year journey… the ingredients … clear accountable high quality administration, a good quality coached rugby program, and a clear recruitment and retention strategy. Surely they seem to be common denominators for the aforementioned clubs.

 

[Pfitzy]

The challenge is for those Subbies clubs in the lower divisions to close the gap. Now I know that is easier said than done, but even Blueys was a multi year journey… the ingredients … clear accountable high quality administration, a good quality coached rugby program, and a clear recruitment and retention strategy. Surely they seem to be common denominators for the aforementioned clubs.

When you figure all that out, please publish it. I'm sure everyone would love to know!