Lions Tour 2025

[JRugby2]

Well yeah, Australia has the highest foreign born population (30%) in the rugby world. You'd expect a national team to be representative of its, ya know, nation. We have huge migrant groups from the Pacific and NZ. Scotland, funnily enough, does not.

Those SH players representing the Lions are mercenaries. Gone to to whichever highest bidder can claim eligibility through some convoluted system designed to help the home nations.

I don't begrudge the players at all, it will always be a huge achievement for them. But the system sucks.

It's still hypocritical. All of those players in the example didn't migrate to Australia, then play rugby - they migrated specifically to play rugby - much like Hansen et al.

Our migrant population is contextually irrelevant.

 

[Wilson]

Anyone think there is going to be a bolter in the squad or big name omission? Been very quite on this front it seems which isn't a bad thing I guess but can be boring for the gossip.

I'll throw one out there. Don't think he'll miss out on this squad but I could see a guy like Kellaway getting cut if others all fit and firing. He was up and down this year and defensively found out a couple of times.

I can't see Kellaway missing out, particularly not with Jorgenson still coming back from injury and no real incumbency amongst anyone in the back 3 outside of Wright (and Kellaway himself). Pietsch is probably the most likely back 3 player from last years crop to miss out, or otherwise Jorgenson if the injury is worse than expected.

Hard to define 'big name' omissions, but if I had to pick someone it might be Porecki, who has been fine when he's played but really hasn't had much time to press his case. I still think he's more likely to be there than not though, and maybe Faessler is also a risk given his injury run. It could be that only one of those two makes it. Nic White is maybe the other - if Gordon and McDermott are certainties (which seems pretty reasonable) then White could easily miss out for Lonergan. Leota is another though I don't think anyone has really expected him to make it for a while (even if fit). Given the number of locks competeing there will be one or two unlucky to miss out, but I don't think it will quite qualify as a big name.

If by bolter you mean uncapped than potentially Lonergan (though he's been there and there abouts so maybe not a bolter). Toole from further afield, but it really depends on what Schmidt wants out of his wingers so it's hard to guess there, Anderson or Reilly could also push through if Toole doesn't fit the bill, but that is probably a bit more dependant on injury. Otherwise, Tualima has made a strong late season push, so I'd now have him ahead of CdC and Brial who were the other outside chances in the back row. Any one of those three would require Schmidt to take a pretty strict approach to departing players though - not picking at least one of Gleeson and Hooper.

 

[Wilson]

I believe they did quite the opposite which is why he became a prison guard in Australia and was eventually spotted by QLD.

Yes, Uru was discarded by the Fijian setup. My understanding was it was off the back of some bullshit politics/imagined offense against someone influential in the Fijian Union and he basically had his ticket marked as never to be picked, but it is all largely rumour. He then pursued a career in Australia, rather than the other way around.

That said, I don't have much issue with the Lions 'foreign' representation, particularly not a player like Tuipuloto who has strong familial ties to Scotland.

 

[JRugby2]

Yes, Uru was discarded by the Fijian setup. My understanding was it was off the back of some bullshit politics/imagined offense against someone influential in the Fijian Union and he basically had his ticket marked as never to be picked, but it is all largely rumour. He then pursued a career in Australia, rather than the other way around.

That said, I don't have much issue with the Lions 'foreign' representation, particularly not a player like Tuipuloto who has strong familial ties to Scotland.

Which if true is basically the same reason Aki and Lowe ended up in Ireland.

 

[Slim 293]

Ultimately, I don't expect any big surprises in this squad...

Guys like Gleeson and Hooper, who were marked at the start of the year not to get selected again because they signed overseas, will definitely be included and a big chance to be in the 23 on the back of career best seasons...

Lonergan and Toole probably the best outside chances, but likely too many incumbents ahead of them who don't deserve to be dropped... but this larger squad is their best chance to get amongst it.

Like Wilson said, Porecki is probably unlikely to be there... and I wouldn't be shocked if Swain misses out again.

Although he was excellent for the Force this year, I'm not sure if it was any better to his form last year when he was ignored.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I can't see Kellaway missing out, particularly not with Jorgenson still coming back from injury and no real incumbency amongst anyone in the back 3 outside of Wright (and Kellaway himself). Pietsch is probably the most likely back 3 player from last years crop to miss out, or otherwise Jorgenson if the injury is worse than expected.

Hard to define 'big name' omissions, but if I had to pick someone it might be Porecki, who has been fine when he's played but really hasn't had much time to press his case. I still think he's more likely to be there than not though, and maybe Faessler is also a risk given his injury run. It could be that only one of those two makes it. Nic White is maybe the other - if Gordon and McDermott are certainties (which seems pretty reasonable) then White could easily miss out for Lonergan. Leota is another though I don't think anyone has really expected him to make it for a while (even if fit). Given the number of locks competeing there will be one or two unlucky to miss out, but I don't think it will quite qualify as a big name.

If by bolter you mean uncapped than potentially Lonergan (though he's been there and there abouts so maybe not a bolter). Toole from further afield, but it really depends on what Schmidt wants out of his wingers so it's hard to guess there, Anderson or Reilly could also push through if Toole doesn't fit the bill, but that is probably a bit more dependant on injury. Otherwise, Tualima has made a strong late season push, so I'd now have him ahead of CdC and Brial who were the other outside chances in the back row. Any one of those three would require Schmidt to take a pretty strict approach to departing players though - not picking at least one of Gleeson and Hooper.

Like I said I don't think he will but I just wanted to throw a conversation starter out there as it's a fun topic and better than going on about birth places IMO.

Piestch is interesting. Schmidt likes him going on last years selections but didn't get as much footy in this year. Jorgo fit it seems, Potter playing great footy. JAS an option there if Kerevi is selected... Reilly would be in the bolter category and i'd be stunned but also back him given his showings especially in Defence.

 

[Dctarget]

Like Wilson said, Porecki is probably unlikely to be there... and I wouldn't be shocked if Swain misses out again.

Dunno if I'll be shocked but I'll be upset. I think he's comfortably in our top 4.

Christy has 5 potential bolters which I hope is just him making shit up for clicks:
R. Longeran, Toole, Champion de Crispgney, Aiden Ross and Sapsford.

Ross maybe. Other four aren't needed. I can see Longeran and Champion de Crispgney in the future but too late now and similar level players in the squad already.

 

[JRugby2]

Dunno if I'll be shocked but I'll be upset. I think he's comfortably in our top 4.

Christy has 5 potential bolters which I hope is just him making shit up for clicks:
R. Longeran, Toole, Champion de Crispgney, Aiden Ross and Sapsford.

Ross maybe. Other four aren't needed. I can see Longeran and Champion de Crispgney in the future but too late now and similar level players in the squad already.

I'd pull in Lonergan for an injury before white tbh

 

[Major Tom]

But they didn't, they picked players who qualified for those 4 countries.

I'm sorry but you can't bemoan a system that you also are benefitting from, without also calling out your team for doing so (and if you have done in the past, fair fucks to ya then play on).

Yeah I get it.
I actually don't really care, I originally said it was different situation because except for Lynagh because they were from the pacific. It's the optics around selecting foreign born players for a team that has accesses to 4 nations of players.

 

[Sword of Justice]

Could easily see Peitsch given that we would only have JAS with size in the backs assuming Kerevi isn’t starting. Even if Kerevi does start him and JAS aren’t really going to be using their size as much in D as on attack (Reece Walsh’s fucking face aside).

 

[JRugby2]

Yeah I get it.
I actually don't really care, I originally said it was different situation because except for Lynagh because they were from the pacific. It's the optics around selecting foreign born players for a team that has accesses to 4 nations of players.

Without doubt is a pretty funny indictment on those countries development pathways, especially Scotland

 

[drewprint]

I mentioned it in the Wallabies thread but it disappeared in the recent forum purge, but I think we gain more by having a hopefully fit, healthy, and firing Kerevi at 12, Ikitau at 13, and JAS on the wing than any other formation. This is controversial too as a rusted on Reds fan, but I also think we gain more by having Skelton start, Hooper at 6, Valetini at 8, than potentially having Wilson start at 8.

 

[JRugby2]

I mentioned it in the Wallabies thread but it disappeared in the recent forum purge, but I think we gain more by having a hopefully fit, healthy, and firing Kerevi at 12, Ikitau at 13, and JAS on the wing than any other formation. This is controversial too as a rusted on Reds fan, but I also think we gain more by having Skelton start, Hooper at 6, Valetini at 8, than potentially having Wilson start at 8.

Oh so you're a traitor coward then.

 

[Slim 293]

Doran has just published the first leaks from the squad...

The discussion probably belongs in the Wallabies' thread because the squad being named today isn't for the Lions.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Sapsford can only really be on the bench in my mind at Test level. He's strong and always steady but is he elite enough for any potential starting spot?

Flook would have been a guy to hold that spot but he physically seems a bit concerning. Had a good return from injury but always seems to get knocked about and grab a shoulder or something else.

 

[Pfitzy]

Which if true is basically the same reason Aki and Lowe ended up in Ireland.

I can see why Lowe ended up there: Kiwis at the time had a stance against including a total flog in your team.

They've changed tho. Rieko Ioane is living proof.

 

[drewprint]

Oh so you're a traitor coward then.

Haha yes. Mods please go ahead and ban me from all future Reds threads. I don’t deserve to be there!

 

[Tex]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. It's less hypocritical because their foreign home is closer than those Lion's foreign home? Why aren't we signing up every half decent Kiwi teenager then?

Not sure if you're being obtuse but surely you're aware of the massive Pasifika diasporas in Australia and New Zealand and their ongoing contributions to rugby in both communities, from grassroots to national teams.

I guess that's the same for the adult Australian, Kiwi and South African migrant rugby player "diaspora" in Scotland and Ireland?

 

[JRugby2]

Not sure if you're being obtuse but surely you're aware of the massive Pasifika diasporas in Australia and New Zealand and their ongoing contributions to rugby in both communities, from grassroots to national teams.

I guess that's the same for the adult Australian, Kiwi and South African migrant rugby player "diaspora" in Scotland and Ireland?

?

All of that is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, as:

It's still hypocritical. All of those players in the example didn't migrate to Australia, then play rugby - they migrated specifically to play rugby - much like Hansen et al.

Our migrant population is contextually irrelevant.

The constant and key critique of the northern-foreign-born player influx (or whatever you want to label it) is that the players weren't born, raised and/or developed in those countries - which is exactly the same for Uru, Tupou etc. The fact we have a large number of pasifika communities spread around the country means absolutely nothing.

Ever walked through Clapham?