Wallabies v Lions Game 2 MCG 26 July

[Ignoto]

He showed when he came on that he was a level above what we had on the field

I explained in the first match thread exactly why Ben and Andrew were picked.

Ben is covering 10/15, Kellaway is covering 12/13/11/14.

Tom is only really capable of playing 10 so there's not point putting him on the bench.

If Lynagh is on the bench and Tom Wright goes down, it means Ben has to shift from 10 to 15 with Tom going to 10. Whereas if Ben was on the bench he goes straight to 15.

It comes down to ensuring all backs have someone to cover their spots in case of injury or HIA with minimal disruption.

 

[Joe Blow]

He has performed for some games. But he hasn’t been given the chance to consistently be in that role for the Wallabies. He showed when he came on that he was a level above what we had on the field. I have no doubt the halfback delivery was better as well.

As I said, they have been limited at test level. However we have seen him in Super Rugby and he has been a part of the Wallaby setup for a few years. We cannot hold the RWC debacle against as he was thrown under the bus to a certain degree. But that was not too different to what is being asked of Tom Lynagh now.

 

[Joe Blow]

Difference is that it was against Wales and this is the BILs with no Welshman in sight

 

[Mr Pilfer]

I think Joe really likes having Tizzano at #21, really wants him to come on and go full energiser bunny for 20 minutes and I think it worked so he will be reluctant to change it, but I do agree having a player that can cover 6-8 makes more sense so he should get squeezed out unless he goes 6-2 bench which is high risk.

 

[Yoda]

Thats very harsh. His kicking game is better than Donaldson and Lolesios. He reads the play better than both and his passing is equal to Donaldsons and better than Lolesios. Donaldson can run but rarely does. Joe keeps going on about Lynagh innate toughness and commitment. Lolesio has a some of it and Donaldson very little. Donaldson is more suited to late in the game when it has opened up. So who would you have in there instead Yoda? JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor)? Donaldson has had his chances.

" Donaldson has had his chances.".... he actually hasn't'. Only a few run ons which a few were fullback. Granted did not nail all of them. He didn't get 30 Tests of mediocrity like Lolesio though. I just feel he deserves more starts while Lynagh bides his time on the bench. Anyone who thought Lynagh had a great game last Saturday is dreaming. He was in there for his kicking? Pop gun at best. Missed touch at half time and missed his only conversion. Backs were ordinary with him calling the shots. He is tough ... but is tiny and will be consistently targeted at Test level. Joe has picked him and so be it however I don't buy Lynaghmania. Donaldson is a better footballer in my book.

 

[Slim 293]

Jack Debreczeni hasn’t had any chances, so we don’t know if he’s possibly the best flyhalf in Australia…

 

[Yoda]

Jack Debreczeni hasn’t had any chances, so we don’t know if he’s possibly the best flyhalf in Australia…

Have you watched him play?

 

[Slim 293]

Have you watched him play?

Not for the Wallabies…

 

[Micheal]

I know. That's why I'm critical of it. The only way to assess potential injury is off the field

Tackle is at 54:10 on the match clock and then front on replay at 2:19:55 on Stan coverage for the head impact

Direct head contact in the tackle for mine, and then appears to stumble getting back up afterwards (although he may have tripped on the ruck).

Not to be pedantic but I’ve heard coaches in Super Rugby refer to pings that they get from players mouth guards when there is significant contact with the head and I know it’s part of the decision making for whether a player is pulled for an HIA.

Eg they actually can assess potential injury off the field too, and for whatever reason they seemed to believe he didn’t need to come off.

 

[Major Tom]

" Donaldson has had his chances.".... he actually hasn't'. Only a few run ons which a few were fullback. Granted did not nail all of them. He didn't get 30 Tests of mediocrity like Lolesio though. I just feel he deserves more starts while Lynagh bides his time on the bench. Anyone who thought Lynagh had a great game last Saturday is dreaming. He was in there for his kicking? Pop gun at best. Missed touch at half time and missed his only conversion. Backs were ordinary with him calling the shots. He is tough ... but is tiny and will be consistently targeted at Test level. Joe has picked him and so be it however I don't buy Lynaghmania. Donaldson is a better footballer in my book.

Man you have a weird classification of ‘pop gun’ kicking.
Anyways, he’s had his first test start and it wasn’t a bad game. He did some good things and some average things against a very good team. He’ll be better for it. Balance wise it makes sense for donno to inject himself at the end against tiring oppo.

 

[Major Tom]

Not to be pedantic but I’ve heard coaches in Super Rugby refer to pings that they get from players mouth guards when there is significant contact with the head and I know it’s part of the decision making for whether a player is pulled for an HIA.

Eg they actually can assess potential injury off the field too, and for whatever reason they seemed to believe he didn’t need to come off.

I’m not sure we’re using it in Australia. Seen the kiwis use it in super rugby.

 

[Wilson]

I’m not sure we’re using it in Australia. Seen the kiwis use it in super rugby.

It's required in super rugby and has been since last year. Not sure how it's being used at international level though.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Not to be pedantic but I’ve heard coaches in Super Rugby refer to pings that they get from players mouth guards when there is significant contact with the head and I know it’s part of the decision making for whether a player is pulled for an HIA.

Eg they actually can assess potential injury off the field too, and for whatever reason they seemed to believe he didn’t need to come off.

The mouthguards are an "or" as part of the process. Another tool to identify potential impact events. They don't identify injury, only impact.



The evidence is clear that concussion/injury cannot be identified on field. That's why stage 1 of the process is an off-field assesment.

I reckon the only reason we're talking about it is because he has a history of head knocks.

Well yeah. I am concerned that a 22 year old who has failed 3(?) HIAs this year isn't being handled conservatively when there is obviously a potential for brain injury

 

[Major Tom]

It's required in super rugby and has been since last year. Not sure how it's being used at international level though.

Oh true. I’ve seen some kiwi teams coming off randomly to get assessed and the commentators explain that their mouthguard has pinged but I can’t remember when an Aussie super team has had it happen?

 

[rugbyAU]

I thought Slipper was pretty good.

At the end of last year I thought his international career was done and he got picked a couple of times that I didn’t think he should have. But his super form this year was much better and I thought he put in a decent shift on the weekend.

He seemed way past it, 1 run for 0m and 4 missed tackles

 

[Major Tom]

The mouthguards are an "or" as part of the process. Another tool to identify potential impact events. They don't identify injury, only impact.

View attachment 22778

The evidence is clear that concussion/injury cannot be identified on field. That's why stage 1 of the process is an off-field assesment.

Well yeah. I am concerned that a 22 year old who has failed 3(?) HIAs this year isn't being handled conservatively when there is obviously a potential for brain injury

Ok we’re getting off track. I’m not suggesting don’t take a player off to do the assessment. I’m being realistic. You can’t just get players off everytime there’s a big hit. In the Lynagh case he took a big shot and he bounced up and looked ok to me. I’m assuming the doctors do the same thing as say the afl and review the footage. If there’s no clear evidence that there could be concussion then it’s play on.
I understand he’s had some concussions. I’m pretty sure one of them was misreported as a concussion. The mouthgaurd system is just more evidence to help bring players off. It’s a ‘no brainer’ to use it (bad pun).
I was originally just saying it’s not a given that he was concussed based off watching it live on tv we just assume the worst because the narrative is he has a history. Besides what do we know. I thought slipper was knocked the fuck out against Fiji and he got taken off field and returned!

 

[Uh huh]

I explained in the first match thread exactly why Ben and Andrew were picked.

Ben is covering 10/15, Kellaway is covering 12/13/11/14.

Tom is only really capable of playing 10 so there's not point putting him on the bench.

If Lynagh is on the bench and Tom Wright goes down, it means Ben has to shift from 10 to 15 with Tom going to 10. Whereas if Ben was on the bench he goes straight to 15.

It comes down to ensuring all backs have someone to cover their spots in case of injury or HIA with minimal disruption.

I think this is a smart analysis. When you've got inexperienced players, blokes out of position, and not a lot of time to make the combinations work, this depth of strategic planning is important.

 

[Linerunner2023]

After watching the game live
Wallabies did well to hold on but their forward pack was obviously missing their big Pacific Islander ball runners
The forward pack was all toilers but will never beat the lions like it was
- Valetini and Gleeson back would be huge! I wouldn’t mind seeing Gleeson at 8 although happy with Wilson there as Gleeson covers more positions
- Skelton for size in the scrums etc
- also wouldn’t mind seeing tupou on the bench

- in Brisbane wallabies missed a beat not brining LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) in, especially with no ball runners he killed it v the lions twice in teams getting easily beaten
I know he won’t be involved but I’d have him there too!
The forward pack needs some point of difference so even a 6 / split and go real power game and size to try and get the lions

also backline needs to get Sua'ali'i involved - ikatau guess we’ll but not big enough
Would be great to have Kerevi at 12 and Sua'ali'i on the wing

 

[TSR]

I think Donaldson has been unlucky - but there are lots of hard luck stories around selection. On the flip side, I don’t think anyone is claiming Lynagh had a memorable performance on the weekend. I think he did enough to get another start - but others think otherwise that is fine.

But gee I hope this doesn’t turn into another pile on to a young player like we saw with guys like Hanigan & Lolesio & Skelton when he started out. We really do like to kill our own at times. Debating his playing ability is well and good but when we start having posters throw up rumours about players standings in the playing group or the comment I read today from a poster suggesting Joe Schmidt picked him because of who has dad is I think those sort of posts go beyond what is reasonable discussion.

 

[TSR]

He seemed way past it, 1 run for 0m and 4 missed tackles

Okay - yeah, those aren’t great stats. Maybe he didn’t go as well as I thought.