Wallabies v Italy - 9 November

[Brumby Runner]

Just watched the first half. Some of the reffing was pretty interesting.
- 4min mark there was a huge Italy knock that didn’t get picked up.
- pen on Tupou was pretty soft
- breakdown turnover just before halftime, Italy player is in from the side (actually in from our side really). We were hot on attack.

I thought I heard the ref say that Tupou asserted too much pressure on the Italy LHP forcing him to go to ground. If I heard that correctly, then it would have to be the most ridiculous explanation of a penalty probably in the history of the game.

 

[Super Hooper]

Ikitau is on a sabbatical and I’m good with that, he will probably come back a better player after getting some proper coaching. In fact we would probably be better off farming out our best 23 players to European sides. And the next 23 after them.

Ikitau on sabbatical meanwhile you are fighting the biggest battle for survive. This defeat against Italy condemns Australia to Seed 2, meaning you could have two Tier 1 opponents in your pool in 2027 RWC, just like in 2023 RWC. Being eliminated in pool stage in your own RWC could be the end of rugby in Australia.

Losing the 2003 RWC final in Australia was a devastating blow, and after that came total collapse. Failing to qualify for the quarterfinals in 2027 would be the death of Australian rugby. Hosting the next RWC should be the turning point to make Australian rugby great again. And that's what you're currently competing for, without Skelton and Ikitau.

 

[KOB1987]

Ikitau on sabbatical meanwhile you are fighting the biggest battle for survive. This defeat against Italy condemns Australia to Seed 2, meaning you could have two Tier 1 opponents in your pool in 2027 RWC, just like in 2023 RWC. Being eliminated in pool stage in your own RWC could be the end of rugby in Australia.

Losing the 2003 RWC final in Australia was a devastating blow, and after that came total collapse. Failing to qualify for the quarterfinals in 2027 would be the death of Australian rugby. Hosting the next RWC should be the turning point to make Australian rugby great again. And that's what you're currently competing for, without Skelton and Ikitau.

Yeah let’s not get too carried away just yet. There is a bit of commentary that because of the round of 16 the actual seedings in the initial pools aren’t all that important, it’s the performance at the actual RWC and the seedings that result in the round of 16 that will determine how the quarter finals are likely to look. If we don’t make the round of 16 I’ll probably start following Italy instead.

 

[Major Tom]

I thought I heard the ref say that Tupou asserted too much pressure on the Italy LHP forcing him to go to ground. If I heard that correctly, then it would have to be the most ridiculous explanation of a penalty probably in the history of the game.

I was talking about the arm to the Italy bloke face but yes that scrum penalty was ridiculous. Just looked like the LHP lost his bind. Pretty ridiculous.

 

[Strewthcobber]

You missed the aimless box kick by Jake Gordon that gifted possession back to Italy, and from which they scored that try a few phases later. Prior to that, the Wallabies had been going nowhere with ball in hand but they had the ball and didn't look like losing it until that brainless kick.

It's clearly the game plan.

We went nowhere off the phase play on half way, and had 14 players on one side of the field - killing time for the yellow card.

With that setup there's no real option but to kick to their 22 otherwise it's a turnover on halfway

The problem as usual is Corey Toole is nowhere even close to competing for the ball, so they can get up and tap it back - then it's just a simple turnover in broken field, with no ruck to compete against

 

[fatprop]

You missed the aimless box kick by Jake Gordon that gifted possession back to Italy, and from which they scored that try a few phases later. Prior to that, the Wallabies had been going nowhere with ball in hand but they had the ball and didn't look like losing it until that brainless kick.

Which is why you box kick

 

[Major Tom]

I don’t have a problem with Gordon’s box kicks it’s his lack of pass off the deck that I just refuse to believe works at test level. Tate is no better of course but he offers elite sniping around the ruck. We relied on a busted and old white because his service was so quick. For the life of me I don’t know why RA re-signed Gordon when we need to look past him to Lonergan, Teddy and Thomas.

 

[Wilson]

Glad I watched that already knowing the result, it would've been torture otherwise.

Just a few thoughts:

I didn't really expect us to rework our systems and alignment mid tour, but we don't seem to have done much at all to fix our high ball issue. I'm not really sure what's worth trying with only a couple of tests left this year, but I'd love to see Sua'ali'i back at 15 as a circuit breaker - I don't think anything in our back 3 arrangement (and 10 dropping back) is working defensively at the moment.

The play From Carter Gordon at 14:30 or so was great to see, but also very indicative of how drained we look as a team right now. Limited support arriving without much energy or dynamism and we lose possession 5m out. On Carter Gordon, he was far from perfect, but pretty good for a first game back. He's a lot more certain in his decision making than Edmed and seems much more able to cope with the pace of the game at this level.

Our discipline has become a real problem, but a big chunk of it is on our own ball. So much of that is down to us trying to play this high possession game without much variation in our attack anymore. The defence are better prepped to hit our rucks than we are half the time, and that's always going to lead to infringements, particularly as the phase count climbs.

The unforced errors are also killing us - silly penalties, knock ons, forward passes and so many kicks out on the full. Frustratingly a lot of those kicks were the right play and not necessarily under a lot of pressure, the execution was just poo.

And this was another game where McReight's strength over the ball saved us from a much more embarrassing scoreline. It's a pity we can't get ourselves into a position where it's delivering results instead.

 

[upthereds#!]

Who are/is the Wallabies attack/backs coach/es?

 

[Hogan]

How you get Kellaway goalkicking is ridiculous

And Jake Gordon kicking for touch ‍

 

[Where's the beef]

Yeah let’s not get too carried away just yet. There is a bit of commentary that because of the round of 16 the actual seedings in the initial pools aren’t all that important, it’s the performance at the actual RWC and the seedings that result in the round of 16 that will determine how the quarter finals are likely to look. If we don’t make the round of 16 I’ll probably start following Italy instead.

Post 2023, the issue in my opinion was that all the free to air coverage went, including the rugby shows. The result was not unexpected. I still maintain that if tiquiri's try was converted we would have won.

 

[Shiggins]

That was just pathetic.
I honestly thought if carter played half decent we win this game comfortably. I wasn't expecting a win because I didn't know what to expect from carter so it hurts a bit less. Carter played very well for someone who hasn't played union or much rugby at all for almost 2 years.

I swear we don't even look to care out there. We look tired and overcooked. Scoreline actually flattered us in the end. Top 6? We are lucky to be top 10.

I've always agreed with Wilson starting but he is starting to really show he lacks physicality. I get it he struggles against the likes of the Boks but in a game like this he should be getting over the ad line. He is so passive and plays like he is 90kg. He also is very lazy cleaning out often coming in the side and flooping in.
Tool, potter, Wilson, Kellaway, need to go. Peitch, jorganson, tizzano, donno, skelton, Lenny all need to be playing in our next 2 games. Donno would be a better FB option than Kellaway if he isn't playing 10.

Half back is a problem. Gordan isn't the best but at times he manages games well for us. Longergon doesn't look like a test starting 9 but we have no other option.

Our biggest issue at the moment is we don't look like we have any effort.

Look at someone like Dmac last night. He took that game for the ABz by the neck and won it. We don't have anyone stepping up like that in moments like these.

We are making terrible decisions and it looks like it's due to fatigue imo. They looked done for the year and have looked like that since the second Argentinian game to be honest.

 

[Tomikin]

It's clearly the game plan.

We went nowhere off the phase play on half way, and had 14 players on one side of the field - killing time for the yellow card.

With that setup there's no real option but to kick to their 22 otherwise it's a turnover on halfway

The problem as usual is Corey Toole is nowhere even close to competing for the ball, so they can get up and tap it back - then it's just a simple turnover in broken field, with no ruck to compete against

I dont think he was too bad today at getting the ball back, others made just as many if not worst. But Petsch and Jorganson should be on the wings. Toole's not quite there for international rugby yet.

 

[Rugby110]

Glad I watched that already knowing the result, it would've been torture otherwise.

Just a few thoughts:

I didn't really expect us to rework our systems and alignment mid tour, but we don't seem to have done much at all to fix our high ball issue. I'm not really sure what's worth trying with only a couple of tests left this year, but I'd love to see Sua'ali'i back at 15 as a circuit breaker - I don't think anything in our back 3 arrangement (and 10 dropping back) is working defensively at the moment.

The play From Carter Gordon at 14:30 or so was great to see, but also very indicative of how drained we look as a team right now. Limited support arriving without much energy or dynamism and we lose possession 5m out. On Carter Gordon, he was far from perfect, but pretty good for a first game back. He's a lot more certain in his decision making than Edmed and seems much more able to cope with the pace of the game at this level.

Our discipline has become a real problem, but a big chunk of it is on our own ball. So much of that is down to us trying to play this high possession game without much variation in our attack anymore. The defence are better prepped to hit our rucks than we are half the time, and that's always going to lead to infringements, particularly as the phase count climbs.

The unforced errors are also killing us - silly penalties, knock ons, forward passes and so many kicks out on the full. Frustratingly a lot of those kicks were the right play and not necessarily under a lot of pressure, the execution was just poo.

And this was another game where McReight's strength over the ball saved us from a much more embarrassing scoreline. It's a pity we can't get ourselves into a position where it's delivering results instead.

If the opposition are going to pepper us with high balls, then a change in the back three is needed. Jorgensen, Sua'ali'i and Pietsch the better to take these balls. C.Gordon more than capable with his technique but just needs time back in the game. I can’t recall if Toole goes alright for the Brumbies?
We had no runners on our highball attempts. Both J. Gordon and C. Gordon put up highballs and no one wanted them even though they were easily in reach of contention and putting the pressure on.

 

[rugbyAU]

Looking forward to Schmidt’s excuses after this

Schmidt: "the boys are a great group and have been working really hard, we're improving, stick with us, it's been a long year"

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I dont think he was too bad today at getting the ball back, others made just as many if not worst. But Petsch and Jorganson should be on the wings. Toole's not quite there for international rugby yet.

Toole is just fast. I don’t think he brings anything to the side other than that.

He earnt an opportunity, got it but it isn’t sustainable to keep him. With some of the young guys and a guy like Marky coming back to Rugby we shouldn’t see him again.

 

[Shiggins]

I also think we downplay how much we miss our best players. I think any test team will struggle without their genuine best 5 players not playing. Lenny, skelton, wright, JOC (James O'Connor), jorganson for example. They are not just slightly better than paisami, toole, Kellaway, Williams, Tane. They are miles ahead. The difference in quality is massive in these players.

I still think any of the top 6 teams can beat Italy without 5 or 6 of their best players because their next best players are not that far behind in quality.

 

[Shiggins]

Toole is just fast. I don’t think he brings anything to the side other than that.

He earnt an opportunity, got it but it isn’t sustainable to keep him. With some of the young guys and a guy like Marky coming back to Rugby we shouldn’t see him again.

I agree. I was calling for toole to start for a long time but at test level the wingers don't get enough space. You need strength and speed that players like jorganson and peitch have.

 

[KOB1987]

Post 2023, the issue in my opinion was that all the free to air coverage went, including the rugby shows. The result was not unexpected. I still maintain that if tiquiri's try was converted we would have won.

I am totally confused by all of this

 

[Brumby Runner]

Ikitau is on a sabbatical and I’m good with that, he will probably come back a better player after getting some proper coaching. In fact we would probably be better off farming out our best 23 players to European sides. And the next 23 after them.

You mean that Len hasn't received proper coaching in his time at the Brumbies? In a time where he is now acknowledged to be one of the world's premier No 13s? And in a time where we play him at 12 to accommodate a rather second rate Player still trying to learn how to play rugby?

If you're right KOB, then he will undoubtedly return as the best of the best.