Ireland v Wallabies, Saturday 15/11 (Sunday morning Aus time)

[upthereds#!]

Probably more likely to be a skills coach.

All G - the current Wallabies skills coach and analyst is killing it

 

[stillmissit]

Not a pissing contest mate. It’s a forum, we're all ‘never beens' but I’ve played plenty and I have a feeling in an era you may not get.

Of the Club environment you probably have 10% of them capable of going to the next level. It’s not even about training, S&C and comprehension a lot of time. If exposed they could catch up with that. It’s the ability to execute the same skills at a higher speed.

Just because I disagree with one statement doesn’t mean I’m against everything. Seems like it’s fine for you to disagree though.

I’ve written on plenty of threads in regards to pathways at all levels. I’m very interested in the future of Rugby and want it to succeed.

You have written lots, but that doesn't mean you are right. None of us are inside the tent, so we are making assumptions and placing our opinions based on that and our history with the game.
The issues in the Wallabies have been the same for the last 20 years, apart from Schmidt's lifting the standard, only to see it fall again, and Cheika taking them to a play off in the RWC and a few games afterwards.
We have a player shortage and an ingrained confidence issue. There are no solutions to these current issues here, and the closest to my mind is Phitzy's suggestion that we fix the pathways, but that is a long term fix.
Is it a pissing contest? - it seems like that to me fairly often.

 

[stillmissit]

training load has been quite light, particulary this week and last and all season really they had a full 7 days off before the Arg and NZ tests and 5 days off after Fiji

Jesus! These guys are pro players who get paid to train and play a limited number of games. They are not fit enough.

 

[stillmissit]

All G - the current Wallabies skills coach and analyst is killing it

Do you mean in terms of doing well or killing the game?
Who is it BTW?

 

[A mutterer]

More flick passe that dont go to hand. Superb.

Ftfy

 

[Braveheart81]

Just see quade as a great mentor for Carter (and the style our backs can play).

I'm not sure a guy who is going to post online that a young 10 playing for the Wallabies isn't up to it (and then have to apologize later) is the ideal person to have as a mentor for said young players.

Jesus! These guys are pro players who get paid to train and play a limited number of games. They are not fit enough.

The guys we are playing are also professionals who get paid to train and play.

We want our side to be better but a relevant question is why should they be?

The issues in the Wallabies have been the same for the last 20 years

Outside of a brief blip in the mid 80s and a decade or so of success from 1991 through to 2003, we've generally been an average team. I accept that it's a pretty bleak way to look at things but where we are now is arguably closer to our long term position in world rugby than the periods of success we had in the 90s/early 00s.

 

[stillmissit]

We want our side to be better but a relevant question is why should they be?

I am guessing that they carry a flag for the nation, and anyone's pride in that requires that they put in the best effort they can. If you are suggesting they are playing consistently at the very best level they can, and can do no better - then I disagree with you. Not sure exactly what you are implying with this bit.

There are guys with a lot of skill but little desire, and there are guys with average skills but plenty of desire to play. NOt sure what the mix is, but I have seen players who could play in the national team but won't put in the extra work necessary to succeed.

Strongly agree with the rest of your post.

 

[Braveheart81]

I am guessing that they carry a flag for the nation, and anyone's pride in that requires that they put in the best effort they can. If you are suggesting they are playing consistently at the very best level they can, and can do no better - then I disagree with you. Not sure exactly what you are implying with this bit.

There are guys with a lot of skill but little desire, and there are guys with average skills but plenty of desire to play. NOt sure what the mix is, but I have seen players who could play in the national team but won't put in the extra work necessary to succeed.

Strongly agree with the rest of your post.

My point is that when you look at our playing group, what exactly do you see that suggests we should be a top 4 side consistently and not in the 5-10 bracket that we have generally been in for most of the last decade.

Historically I think you could compare our players to a lot of teams that we are now on par with and argue that our players were both better athletes and more highly skilled and that would lead to consistently beating these teams.

I don't think you can say the same now. Against the top sides I think you can easily argue that we are at an athletic disadvantage and against sides we used to beat consistently like Argentina and Italy I think a lot more players are very much on par with our guys.

 

[griffins]

There are guys with a lot of skill but little desire, and there are guys with average skills but plenty of desire to play. NOt sure what the mix is, but I have seen players who could play in the national team but won't put in the extra work necessary to succeed.

who are you seeing that's oozing skill but lacking desire?

 

[dillyboy]

I'm not sure a guy who is going to post online that a young 10 playing for the Wallabies isn't up to it (and then have to apologize later) is the ideal person to have as a mentor for said young players.

Potentially.

But a guy who isn't afraid to call a spade a spade and would hopefully have the balls to say to the head coach "this guy isn't ready" would be handy to have around....

 

[liquor box]

I don't care who it is, as long as its not Greg Clarke.

Was Greg really that bad?

Could anyone really excel at their job with Marto and Kearns as assistants? He does alright with Fiji.

 

[wamberal99]

Was Greg really that bad?

Could anyone really excel at their job with Marto and Kearns as assistants? He does alright with Fiji.

He talks in cliches, repeats the same few phrases, never makes an interesting observation. Marto wasn't too bad, but Kearns was even worse than Clarke.


I still remember the time that a scrum collapsed and Kearns was asked "what happened then, Phil?" "How would I know?" said the former Australian hooker.


WTF was he in the commentary team for?


The STAN commentary team is not good, but it is better than that rabble.

 

[stillmissit]

My point is that when you look at our playing group, what exactly do you see that suggests we should be a top 4 side consistently and not in the 5-10 bracket that we have generally been in for most of the last decade.

Historically I think you could compare our players to a lot of teams that we are now on par with and argue that our players were both better athletes and more highly skilled and that would lead to consistently beating these teams.

I don't think you can say the same now. Against the top sides I think you can easily argue that we are at an athletic disadvantage and against sides we used to beat consistently like Argentina and Italy I think a lot more players are very much on par with our guys.

Agree with most of this, but when we knock over SA in J'burg and have run Ireland close and beaten England a year ago, has anything changed apart from injuries? Is that what the fundamental issue is?

 

[stillmissit]

who are you seeing that's oozing skill but lacking desire?

Didn't make it clear that I was talking about some of the guys I played with years ago. I assume due to human nature that the same thing happens today.

 

[Braveheart81]

Agree with most of this, but when we knock over SA in J'burg and have run Ireland close and beaten England a year ago, has anything changed apart from injuries? Is that what the fundamental issue is?

I'm not sure what your point is here.

Teams at the level we are have always had the occasional upset against the top teams.

Did anyone really think that an odd isolated result means we're suddenly a top 4 team again?

 

[Tomthumb]

I'm not sure what your point is here.

Teams at the level we are have always had the occasional upset against the top teams.

Did anyone really think that an odd isolated result means we're suddenly a top 4 team again?

There was a clear level up on the End of year tour last year, and a tightly fought Lions series and the Joburg test followed up by a tightly fought Cape Town Test

There was a clear upward trajectory that has completely subsided. The attack has got far more narrow during this time

 

[rugbyAU]

There was a clear level up on the End of year tour last year, and a tightly fought Lions series and the Joburg test followed up by a tightly fought Cape Town Test

There was a clear upward trajectory that has completely subsided. The attack has got far more narrow during this time

it always hapens with the Wallabies after we string together a few good tests, it's a false dawn and turns bad again

 

[Strewthcobber]

Agree with most of this, but when we knock over SA in J'burg and have run Ireland close and beaten England a year ago, has anything changed apart from injuries? Is that what the fundamental issue is?

I reckon the SA result was a pretty big outlier, which came about because of luck basically. SA were extraordinarily generous with intercepts and turnovers.

And now there's no Tom Wright to take advantage of it, and other teams have realized the way to beat us is to pressure our last line with kicks, not runs.

The back 3 kick receiver issue is a huge obvious problem that every team is now taking advantage of

 

[rugbyAU]

I reckon the SA result was a pretty big outlier, which came about because of luck basically. SA were extraordinarily generous with intercepts and turnovers.

And now there's no Tom Wright to take advantage of it, and other teams have realized the way to beat us is to pressure our last line with kicks, not runs

but in Cape Town even with 15 injuries (including the one's in the game) we were one point behind going into the final ten but JOC (James O'Connor) forgot how to goalkick

 

[Braveheart81]

There was a clear level up on the End of year tour last year, and a tightly fought Lions series and the Joburg test followed up by a tightly fought Cape Town Test

There was a clear upward trajectory that has completely subsided. The attack has got far more narrow during this time

Isn't this a pretty standard element of average teams that their form ebbs and flows and they are largely inconsistent?

Two months before beating England, Argentina put 67 points on us and won by 40.

The week after beating England we beat Wales by 32 and then lost the following week to Scotland by 14.

I thought things were looking up too. I said to lots of people earlier this season (and I am pretty sure on this forum) that it was exciting to be a Wallabies fan again. It appears pretty clearly now that it was a false dawn.