New Zealand Rugby Team Watch

[Dismal Pillock]

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Hope Larry Curly and Moe arent reading the comments sections here.

Stuff can only keep the fucking comments portals open for 24 hours as the vicious slather of backlashing vitriol could corrode the mainframe if left unattended any longer. The collective seethe makes my reasoned and proportionately critical comments of, say, for instance, oh I don't know, Beauden f****** Barrett look like UN-level diplomacy.

 

[KiwiM]

I know it not popular opinion, but I think you watch, with BB at 10, he good at swing attack and moving from to other side of breakdown, and it looks somewhat a plan when we can break a couple of times down one way, we are actually looking to swing back quite well. I genuinely believe they need to tidy up detail, same as kick height etc from 9, with new laws being played, we need good chasers and getting in air, but with numbers so we can tap kicks back?

I think part of the issue is the balance in the squad/team. BB is a poor punter/high ball kicker, Roigard is excellent off of his left but poor off of his right boot, Jordan at fullback doesn't really kick. They don't really use their wingers to kick often. Throw in the fact that BB doesn't take on the line these days and our attack suffers greatly. We've been waiting two years for them to 'tidy up some detail' and it's just not happening. There's a similar lack of balance in the loose forwards. Ardie at 7 is not working but Razor won't move him. Lakai is having to get through a lot of work and Sititi is an excellent ball runner but offers little elsewhere. It really feels like the ABs are spinning their wheels under this coaching staff - perhaps a new assistant can really breathe some life into the squad but there doesn't seem to be a Joe Schmidt type floating around.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

perhaps a new assistant can really breathe some life into the squad but there doesn't seem to be a Joe Schmidt type floating around.

If the stuff about D.Paps is true, coupled with assistants crying off (ffs probably the best job they will ever have in their lives? jet-setting globetrotting with six MONTHS off a year on full pay) then what quality of assistants could Razor attract? He doesn't want to work with anyone except his useless mates and clearly qualified people don't want to work with him.

ffs, strategy wise, someone like Tony Brown is lapping Razor and his mates. While doing backstroke. In an aqualung.

 

[Dan54]

Must admit, I more than a bit surprised that Papali'i isn't in AB squad at least, genuinely think he would fit in at least on bench pretty well, if not a starter. And I struggling to hear any rumours going around who he's upset, as usually when someone misses out there is a whisper.

 

[Dan54]

I think part of the issue is the balance in the squad/team. BB is a poor punter/high ball kicker, Roigard is excellent off of his left but poor off of his right boot, Jordan at fullback doesn't really kick. They don't really use their wingers to kick often. Throw in the fact that BB doesn't take on the line these days and our attack suffers greatly. We've been waiting two years for them to 'tidy up some detail' and it's just not happening. There's a similar lack of balance in the loose forwards. Ardie at 7 is not working but Razor won't move him. Lakai is having to get through a lot of work and Sititi is an excellent ball runner but offers little elsewhere. It really feels like the ABs are spinning their wheels under this coaching staff - perhaps a new assistant can really breathe some life into the squad but there doesn't seem to be a Joe Schmidt type floating around.

I wasn't arguing so much for BB as much as suggesting that we can't see a style the ABs are playing. I just saying I can see what I think they are trying to play, just not sure they got the right players to do it. or at least they failing to get details of plan right, or if it coorect plan to beat teams they playing against.

 

[KiwiM]

Mate, have you seen the reaction over fact we have lost 3 tests this year (so far)? There are calls for coaches head etc.

3 losses that are combined for the largest combined losing margin in a season in All Black history

The Post

www.thepost.co.nz

All Blacks’ worst years by combined losing margin​

2025: 53 (3 losses)
2022: 44 (4)
2023: 43 (3)
1999: 37 (3)
2019: 33 (2)
1949: 31 (6)
2009: 29 (4)
1998: 28 (5)
1986: 27 (3)
2021: 26 (3)
1970: 25 (3)
1928: 22 (2)
1994: 21 (3)
1980: 20 (2)

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Saw that @KiwiM but was more interested in another stat, namely that there's only ever been 16 years where AB have lost three or more Tests. That five of those 16 are now consecutive is a bigger concern than the combined margin for mine, most of that being down to the flogging by SA.

 

[Linerunner2023]

It’s been a very odd year
Some moments they look unbeatable but they look really fragile at time when other teams take them on
There seems to be a lack of cohesion with the side at time looking like they don’t know each other

tbh also many players who were considered the next thing who havnt quite kicked on and potentially even regressed a little
Lomax, Jacobson, papaali, Blackadder, alb and teupau, Reece, Telea all started well but fell off in last season or two
Tight 5 look solid - but different between Vai and S Barrett best and worst games
Savea, Lakai and sititi could work!
b Barrett isn’t a 10 at test level I’d go Richie at 10 and Barrett at 15 where he can use his running instincts
Jordan on the wing
Backline looks out of sorts most of the year
As guys have mentioned a couple of big losses and the wins many have not looked comfortable

 

[KiwiM]

Saw that @KiwiM but was more interested in another stat, namely that there's only ever been 16 years where AB have lost three or more Tests. That five of those 16 are now consecutive is a bigger concern than the combined margin for mine, most of that being down to the flogging by SA.

Losing by 14 points to England is a flogging also. That's two floggings in one season.

 

[Linerunner2023]

I think part of the issue is the balance in the squad/team. BB is a poor punter/high ball kicker, Roigard is excellent off of his left but poor off of his right boot, Jordan at fullback doesn't really kick. They don't really use their wingers to kick often. Throw in the fact that BB doesn't take on the line these days and our attack suffers greatly. We've been waiting two years for them to 'tidy up some detail' and it's just not happening. There's a similar lack of balance in the loose forwards. Ardie at 7 is not working but Razor won't move him. Lakai is having to get through a lot of work and Sititi is an excellent ball runner but offers little elsewhere. It really feels like the ABs are spinning their wheels under this coaching staff - perhaps a new assistant can really breathe some life into the squad but there doesn't seem to be a Joe Schmidt type floating around.

It seems razor has blitzed super rugby having an all black super rugby squad following a game plan and being superior to all other teams
Come into test rugby he doesn’t think in games like rassie does changing game plans per each game and have a plan B so when a team throws the all blacks off quickly they have no idea how to hold them out and then counter punch back

 

[Dan54]

It seems razor has blitzed super rugby having an all black super rugby squad following a game plan and being superior to all other teams
Come into test rugby he doesn’t think in games like rassie does changing game plans per each game and have a plan B so when a team throws the all blacks off quickly they have no idea how to hold them out and then counter punch back

I also think Razor is perhaps finding another difference. I remember hearing Crusaders players saying how Razor would use a theme over the season, and for games to focus the mind of players, which is all very good, but at test level, I think just playing tests should be enough to lift performances. I may have explained that wrong, but if you get my drift?
Also the way to wind up Crusaders/Robertson supporters I just thought of. Perhaps Crusaders went so well is because all those players were in ABs improved so much under Foster's coaching?

 

[KiwiM]

Fascinating article in the Herald by Gregor Paul

Inside Rugby: Chairman Kirk's nuclear option for coaching dilemma

OPINION: David Kirk has acknowledged All Blacks appointment process was flawed.

www.nzherald.co.nz

The Herald has spoken to several high-profile Kiwi coaches based overseas, who say that while they love their country and want teams in black to win on the world stage, they have no interest in coming home because they don’t believe the high-performance system is operating at best-practice levels, and they don’t trust NZR to consistently make good decisions around coaching and management appointments.

Some coaches have said they fear NZR has become dismissive of what it could learn and borrow from other countries and that it has shut itself off entirely from the rest of the world, which is partly why they say the All Blacks’ defensive and attacking patterns are outdated and ineffective.

The criticism about the process to appoint Robertson has focused mainly on the timing, but what’s become apparent since is that an NZR board with no high-performance expertise on it at the time signed off on a plan that fans are starting to feel duped by.

Robertson was announced to the public in March as the All Blacks head coach-elect – and that he would work with NZR to populate his wider coaching team before starting in 2024.

But Robertson’s vision was never for him to undertake the tasks that most would agree constitute the role of head coach – setting the overall playing vision for the team and then overseeing the delivery of that plan.

Instead, Robertson pitched himself as a culture coach, responsible for theming campaigns, communicating one-on-one with players to manage their expectations and career progression.

As Robertson confirmed to the Herald this week in Cardiff, it is his assistant, Scott Hansen, who effectively operates in the role most would recognise as the head coach.

Hansen, who presents as an obvious deep thinker and passionate custodian of the All Blacks brand, mainly operated as a defence coach prior to his current appointment, having had stints with Canterbury, the Leicester Tigers and the Crusaders.

There are three significant issues with how this has played out. The first is that the team are not playing particularly well, having lost seven of their 26 tests under Robertson/Hansen.

Those results are a confirmation of sorts that the team have not yet found their identity: they have not produced a definitive style of rugby that has caught the imagination and the Northern Hemisphere media have been hugely underwhelmed by the All Blacks these last few weeks.

Secondly, the question needs to be asked that if Hansen had applied to be the head coach in 2023, would he have been given the role?

And this creates the third and most contentious problem, which is that it feels like the public have been mis-sold the truth about the All Blacks.

There was huge public support for Robertson to be promoted to the All Blacks in 2023, because he’d earned the promotion through his success with the Crusaders.

But it feels now like the people voted for a President who has handed the keys of office to the unelected Vice-President, without a mandate to do so.

The situation – given results, performances and the division of labour – seems entirely unsustainable.

Speaking with the Herald’s Shayne Currie in Chicago a few weeks ago, NZR chair David Kirk – who was not in his role at the time of Robertson’s appointment – said: “It’s generally accepted by most people that that was an unfortunate process, and that it was sub-optimal for everyone – actually for Scott as well as for Ian.
“We’re not in the business of having sub-optimal processes. We would certainly seek to avoid that type of process in the future. I would very much hope not, certainly when I’m the chair.”

 

[zer0]

I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that the high performance system has stagnated since ~2015 or whenever. There's an inherent volatility with age-grade performance, but there does seem to have been a general plateauing of collective performances over a protracted period.

Similarly, there's definitely a lot of the fan base with their heads still stuck in the sand. You'll still find old wounders rambling on in the Stuff comments or where ever about how you have to "earn your place through the NPC" like it's 1985, or even 2005. It's farcical that Fainga'anuku had to fluff around in the NPC first. As if skittling semi-pros and Super Rugby development players would tell you anything more than his Top 14 performances against test players and guys who have played hundreds of pro matches. If it's not them it's the "NZ way" crowd who were particularly vocal during the Blues 2024 season. Given the history and evolution of the sport, I'd have thought the true "NZ way" is "whatever wins rugby matches".

It does seem like another good old 2003 level overhaul will definitely required again. I wasn't a fan of the way Kirk went about the PE debate by promoting whichever place it was he had ties to, but hopefully he does well here with his sub-optimal process fixing.

EDIT: It's popped up before that Robertson is more of a culture guy, but managing "career progression" does sound like he's best suited to a Super Rugby level or development role as opposed to the pinnacle of high peroformance. Just like Robbie Deans. If you have a modern and well functioning high perofmance system then I'd imagine those sorts of roles would be just as important. idk if I can see him moving in that direction though.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Instead, Robertson pitched himself as a culture coach, responsible for theming campaigns

fuckign WUT??

"I call this one 'Grand Slam Attempt'"

Jesus, what is he, an adman for Revlon?

"I call this one "Autumnal Parasols Shimmering In Pastel Sprigs"

"I call this one 'Burnt Sienna Sunset Of Tomorrow's Spring Junket"

"I call this one "You Think Stern Vern Would Ever Fucking Bother With This Bullshit?"

 

[Dan54]

I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that the high performance system has stagnated since ~2015 or whenever. There's an inherent volatility with age-grade performance, but there does seem to have been a general plateauing of collective performances over a protracted period.

Similarly, there's definitely a lot of the fan base with their heads still stuck in the sand. You'll still find old wounders rambling on in the Stuff comments or where ever about how you have to "earn your place through the NPC" like it's 1985, or even 2005. It's farcical that Fainga'anuku had to fluff around in the NPC first. As if skittling semi-pros and Super Rugby development players would tell you anything more than his Top 14 performances against test players and guys who have played hundreds of pro matches. If it's not them it's the "NZ way" crowd who were particularly vocal during the Blues 2024 season. Given the history and evolution of the sport, I'd have thought the true "NZ way" is "whatever wins rugby matches".

It does seem like another good old 2003 level overhaul will definitely required again. I wasn't a fan of the way Kirk went about the PE debate by promoting whichever place it was he had ties to, but hopefully he does well here with his sub-optimal process fixing.

EDIT: It's popped up before that Robertson is more of a culture guy, but managing "career progression" does sound like he's best suited to a Super Rugby level or development role as opposed to the pinnacle of high peroformance. Just like Robbie Deans. If you have a modern and well functioning high perofmance system then I'd imagine those sorts of roles would be just as important. idk if I can see him moving in that direction though.

Mate, the reason you have to play a game of at least NPC level is that your contract doesn't start until you play in NZ, not to show what you can do. You can play if you play club rugby, just players not back in time, and squads for RC are named before NPC starts. And LF is a bad example if you watched his games in France, where he attacked ok , but had the worst defensive stats of any centre in top 14 by quite some way. I watched him in a couple of games, and hoped like hell he would get taught to defend in NPC. If you saw the 7 missed tackles against Scotland , perhaps you would know he didn't learn! Mind you in France top 14, there realistically only 4-5 good teams anyway, like Japan a lot of games there are not high class events.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

ps re; "Stuff": there is NO REASON whatsoever to ever read more than 2 or 3 Richard Knowler news articles each rugby season.

Each insulting blag of an effort is a mailed-in chop-shop collation of 5 of his previous articles. There is NEVER anything "new" in one of his articles.

He's like a crafty uni student using the same 2 essays for his entire matriculation, with minor tweaks each time, to fob off on unsuspecting faculty departments and skate through with a B average.

 

[KiwiM]

ps re; "Stuff": there is NO REASON whatsoever to ever read more than 2 or 3 Richard Knowler news articles each rugby season.

Each insulting blag of an effort is a mailed-in chop-shop collation of 5 of his previous articles. There is NEVER anything "new" in one of his articles.

He's like a crafty uni student using the same 2 essays for his entire matriculation, with minor tweaks each time, to fob off on unsuspecting faculty departments and skate through with a B average.

I am surprised when he writes an article that doesnt mention Cullen Grace as the answer the ABs are looking for.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

I would sacrifice Donnie Drumpf's firstborn if it meant I could be a fly on the wall at David Kirk's 2025 season review. Bigwig CEO types like him are not renowned for being indulgent of losers that are not only failing to reach the required standard but are in fact actively harming the business.

Holland and Leon already gone and SURELY Tamati Ellison and Dipshit Gobbledygook Cocksure Hansen politely told to please just fuck off forever.

"Best of order, best of order, Chairman Kirk presiding. Would the accused please stand the fuck up."

 

[zer0]

It's interesting that the two globally recoginised players for the ABs over the last two seasons have both been rookies.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

So haven't been cyborged yet?