Deans contract extension

[darkhorse]

Happy about Dean's staying although I hope they get rid of his assistants.

Now for the Dream team of Deans, McKenzie & Foley. Backs, Forwards and set pieces all have their quality coaches.

What the wallabies are lacking is a disciplined and aggressive pack. McKenzie has shown he can turn any tellytubies into hard workers both with QLD and NSW.

Why can't some of the super coaches help out at national level as well. The NRL do it for state of origin and the Kangaroos. Admittedly less work is entailed for them.

 

[Gagger]

Cetainly is a "dream". Link did the assistant coach gig years ago. Hell would freeze over first

 

[darkhorse]

Cetainly is a "dream". Link did the assistant coach gig years ago. Hell would freeze over first

True. There's no chance he'll take just the assistant job. If he was allowed to continue continue coaching the Reds and assist with the wallabies it might be a different story.

I'm not sure what the actual policy is, but there seems to be an unspoken rule that you can't coach at both super rugby and test level at the same time. I can't really see why though, aside from a possible slight overlap in preseason.

We should have our best coaches coaching as much as possible. In the short time a national coach has his squad there is only so much he can coach a player out of bad habits. He really has to work with what chris hickey and co. have been teaching them. The national coaches if they are our best coaches should be more involved in developing players in the country and I think not just linking them with a franchise, but allowing them have a permenant spot on the coaching is the way to go about it.

 

[Gagger]

I'm not sure what the actual policy is, but there seems to be an unspoken rule that you can't coach at both super rugby and test level at the same time. I can't really see why though, aside from a possible slight overlap in preseason.

A pretty massive conflict of interest - anyone playing under that coach at state level naturally gets a massive leg up when it comes to selection. That province then gets a huge boost when it comes to recruitment - "play for us and you play with the Aussie coach"

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Was Eddie Jones still coaching the Brumbies when assisting MacQueen?

 

[Red Rooster]

I wouldn't assume that Link will sit around and wait for Deans to go - If he continues to do well then other options will open up - he might be a foreigner coaching another international team. The politics of Australian rugby suggests that if you are on JON's wagon you will go ok - remember Nucifora is sitting there at the ARU like a patient bridesmaid

 

[Red Rooster]

Was Eddie Jones still coaching the Brumbies when assisting MacQueen?

He never assisted Macqueen - Jones observed during the Lions series as a part of a handover - actually Mckenzie, Muggleton and Lane were the assistants

 

[ChargerWA]

In the modern world, what does the contract stand for. Nothing.

If a team wants to get rid of their coach, they just say "on your way, here's a nice payout". eg. Andy Friend

If a coach want's to leave, the board see's no point in making a reluctant coach stay on. eg John Mitchell

As far as I am concerned, it's the ARU just showing public support for RD before the world cup to build confidence, beyond that, it's a nothing.

 

[disco]

Deans record against the AB's is poor but let's not forget two wins in Paris, two wins @Twickers & two wins in SA & 1 of those on the highveldt.

Ok the loss at Murrayfield & the loss against England in Sydney last year were real lowlights but I think Deans has made progress especially when you consider the personnel changes from his 1st victory in Sydney 2008 until the drought breaker in Honkers 2010.

2008 side 2010
1. Benn Robinson 1. Benn Robinson
2. Stephen Moore 2. Stephen Moore
3. Al Baxter 3. Ben Alexander
4.James Horwill 4. Mark Chisolm
5. Nathan Sharpe 5. Nathan Sharpe
6. Rocky Elsom 6. Rocky Elsom
7. George Smith 7. David Pocock
8. Wycliff palu 8. Ben McCalman
9.Luke Burgess 9. Will Genia
10. Matt Giteau 10. Quade Cooper
11. Lote Tuqiri 11. Drew Mitchell
12. Berrick Barnes 12. Matt Giteau
13. Ryan Cross 13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Peter Hynes 14. James O'Connor
15. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 15. Kurtley Beale

A lot more changes in the backs than forwards. Other than George Smith & Al Baxter the rest from 2008 would still hold their spot in the starting 15 today.

 

[Tahfan]

i think the re-appointment is a smart move. I think the timing however is stupid.

Ireland went into the last world cup being talked about as a realistic semi final proposition. They were playing great rugby and had one of their strongest squads ever. Eddie O'Sullivan leveraged the situation and forces a new contract out of the IRFU then very promptly goes on holiday so to speak and Ireland nearly get rolled by Georgia and suffer a humiliating first round exit. EOS hangs on to his job but is politely shown the door after performances fail to improve. 2009 Kidney takes most of the same players to the Grand Slam (first since 1948!)

England went into last years soccer world cup having blitzed all before them in qualifying. The FA panicking cos Capello might get picked up by some dodgy italian side give him a new 4 year deal. England go on to be awful in the finals showing Capello as a weak manager for tournament football. Still they can't get rid of him just yet, they would lose too much face esp as they are guaranteed to make Euro 2012. Look for him to not get an extension after that one though...

You can have most things ready to go but leave the actual contract till after the world cup and see if Dean's long term plan is successful.

 

[Red Rooster]

Deans record against the AB's is poor but let's not forget two wins in Paris, two wins @Twickers & two wins in SA & 1 of those on the highveldt.

Ok the loss at Murrayfield & the loss against England in Sydney last year were real lowlights but I think Deans has made progress especially when you consider the personnel changes from his 1st victory in Sydney 2008 until the drought breaker in Honkers 2010.

2008 side 2010
1. Benn Robinson 1. Benn Robinson
2. Stephen Moore 2. Stephen Moore
3. Al Baxter 3. Ben Alexander
4.James Horwill 4. Mark Chisolm
5. Nathan Sharpe 5. Nathan Sharpe
6. Rocky Elsom 6. Rocky Elsom
7. George Smith 7. David Pocock
8. Wycliff palu 8. Ben McCalman
9.Luke Burgess 9. Will Genia
10. Matt Giteau 10. Quade Cooper
11. Lote Tuqiri 11. Drew Mitchell
12. Berrick Barnes 12. Matt Giteau
13. Ryan Cross 13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Peter Hynes 14. James O'Connor
15. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 15. Kurtley Beale

A lot more changes in the backs than forwards. Other than George Smith & Al Baxter the rest from 2008 would still hold their spot in the starting 15 today.

What about the loss at Twickers last year - second ina row to England

 

[Gnostic]

I think I'll just bookmark this thread to bring up at an opportune time.
I will not state my position, all should know it by now and heaven & mods forbid I restate or clarify my position on a topic.

What I will say however from a business POV it is rediculous to reappoint a manager who has not met a single published KPI in his current contract to date. Add that to the fact JON was granted a extension to his contract under less than transparent circumstances. I refer you to W.Smith's articles in the Oz last week.

My prediction is that either Deans will resign post RWC or excuses will be found in injuries or KPI's massaged to turn the average into the acceptable as has happened already over the last two years.

 

[Jnor]

Does your prediction hold if we win, Gnostic?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

That's what I was thinking also, Jnor.

My prediction is that Deans is going to deliver Bill this year. There, I've called it and will be putting my money where my mouth is. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

 

[cyclopath]

Does your prediction hold if we win, Gnostic?

I don't think Gnostic sees the Wallabies winning under Deans. I'm sure he wants them to win though.

 

[daz]

My prediction is that Deans is going to deliver Bill this year. There, I've called it and will be putting my money where my mouth is. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

I certainly think we will make the final, but if you wanna go the whole hog TBH, I'm with you....

 

[Skippy]

This decision really takes the cake for me. And JON should be hung for this.
Personally, Deans is a good coach. And the best coach available to coach Australia and I think he's developed depth and a side capable of winning the WC and moving forwards, being on top of the World for a few years to come.
Yes, there are probably not a lot of world class coaches available at present and so therefore I can agree on one hand the need to secure the services of a quality coach is a small field of available options.
However, I'm certain JON has always said Deans will be judged on the trophy cabinet and the WC result.
So tell me what trophies are in our cabinet after 3 years? And what happens if we bomb out of the WC?
Deans to me would probably resign if he have a nightmare world cup (and we are only one or two injuries away from that) so all JON has done is give him a guaranteed pay check and nice good bye package. Well done JON... another potential waste of money if he resigns or they decide to pay him out... and on the other hand you are trying to bring in a salary cap and reduce players wages because 'we' (as you claim) haven't got the funds.
I for one and glad Deans is staying and think he deserves to stay. But the ARU should have waited till after the WC before finalizing a contract. They could have a preliminary contract or a contract with an option etc or just a promisory note etc.

 

[Nusadan]

Would there have been monetary bonuses in Dean's contract for making certain stages in, and winning the RWC?

Am asking in light of examples regarding coaches shown above in Ireland rugby in 2007 and England soccer in last year's World Cup...

 

[Groucho]

That's what I was thinking also, Jnor.

My prediction is that Deans is going to deliver Bill this year. There, I've called it and will be putting my money where my mouth is. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

I agree. I've bookmarked this thread (drum roll) and I fully intend not to bring it up at an inopportune time.

 

[Groucho]

Would there have been monetary bonuses in Dean's contract for making certain stages in, and winning the RWC?

Am asking in light of examples regarding coaches shown above in Ireland rugby in 2007 and England soccer in last year's World Cup...

The idea of monetary rewards for results is a thorny issue, Nusadan, in business as well as sports. As Bob Dwyer often says, the performance objective is not 'to win', but to play well, since the best way to win is to play well. That's why the idea of KPIs exists: to focus effort on the controllable elements of performance.

That might all sound like management BS, but in business it is known to deliver superior results. I don't see why it should be any different in sports. Look at SA in the last RWC. With hindsight, what was worth cultivating: the win, or the team's capabilities. You could argue (and I would) that the win had a fair slice of luck in it, but the high quality of the preparation of the team by Jake White gave them the best chance of winning, regardless of who they encountered.

People often talk about Deans not meeting his KPIs, without knowing what those KPIs include.