I for one can understand what John the Baptist has to say. He seems a reasonable bloke to me. Defiling is a strong word but I see his point.
The way I see it, for what its worth :
The Irish outplayed us fair and square (almost everybody acknowledges this which is great).
We didn’t turn up.
We were not arrogant in thinking that we should beat Ireland only in thinking that we could by phoning it in.
I was as desperately disappointed by our loss as barbarian and swore to myself that my obsession with the whole bloody thing was unhealthy. I swore I would not be back, on this site or any other talking about the rugby, and that I would shed my masochistic tendencies and pay more attention to my lovely partner and the kids.
Of course I am back. And have read word for word the entire thread as well as the hate vibe one. Does this reflect well on me? Probably not, though part of me would like to think that the best attribute of a rugby fan is the love of the game, not just that your team wins. I am still fascinated by the outcome of games that don’t involve the wobbs, France v Abs for example.
Barbarians post was a reflection of his despair. The only quibble I had with it was that it used language that could have been interpreted as abusive of the Irish. This was unfortunate though I firmly believe was not the intent.
I think st john is right though – barbarian did suggest that he was out and never coming back – I shared his pain, as many of us did, though perhaps not so overtly.
It strikes me that the biggest issue of all is our (read ‘human’) propensity to become over-identified with our team and their performance. Believe me I know; this comes from a bloke who has been known to cry at Wallabies games. (If any of you are golf fans and lived through the Norman years you will know what I mean).
I think we need to be able retain the capacity to take a breath, pull our heads in etc. We love rugby. We love the Wallabies. I have been watching them since the late seventies – was at the semi final at Concord in 87, saw the 91 team smash the Poms and then the Blacks (remember Edgo stealing the ball out of Kirwan’s hands and running away for a try? I kid you not tears ran down my cheeks). Saw Gregan knock the ball out of Wilson’s hands, was at the 2000 game at ANZ when we lost in the last few mins in front of 100,000. I do not enjoy watching any other game as much as I enjoy watching rugby. But guess what? I don’t own it. None of us own it although we often engage in the fantasy that we do.
When our kids do something stupid one of our primary responses (usually unconscious) it is to feel ashamed. This is simply because they are identified with us – ie their poor behaviour (in sporting terms playing poorly and losing) reflects badly on us.
We feel let down. We can get defensive. We have a right to – to a certain extent.
Sully has it right when he reflects that the growing anti-aus element in kiwi is due to our status as the greatest perceived threat to the ABs winning the cup. Think how long it is since they won – think how identified they are with their rugby team – which is often why they win so much – they cant afford to lose – we can; much more than them. This is a blessing and a curse. There isn’t nearly as much national despair when we lose – possibly a consequence of the sporting public being much more divided in this country than in NZ ie league, afl, soccer, union. I for one think this is a healthy thing even though I have often entertained the fantasy that league will roll over and die and all their hard men will come and play for us. (Imagine that – we’d win all the bloody time).
When the stakes are raised and the tension is escalated by the enormity of the prize, we run the risk of losing control – letting barracking become abuse. Chuck in booze, and the reports coming out of NZ don’t surprise me at all.
Sorry for length of post. Go Wobbs. Go Ireland particularly when you come up against the Poms.
