ARU - Taskforce designed to reform Brisbane and Sydney Premier Rugby

[waratahjesus]

I use to think this, but do you really think the clubs can support further professionalism. The clubs move to professional structures has been shambolic. Most of them run on the smell of an oily rag. Players jump around clubs each season looking for the best deal and clubs go broke buying a team to try and keep up with the powerhouses.

I think replacing all the academies with trans-tasman U21/U22 competition based on the super rugby franchises, with the Australian teams funded jointly by the ARU and super rugby franchises, is far more viable and will build a better pool of talent.

This should be the goal of the ARU and NZRU once they can both afford to fund it.

It would also allow the 5 main club comps to continue their long standing traditions and remove the weight of professionalism off them. Would also allow for the introduction of new clubs from non-rugby area's as the big clubs would lose a lot of their talent to the U21 team meaning that the smaller clubs could now compete. Perfect example of this is a team like logan in brisbane, who field a team in reserve grade. The introduction of a higher tier would be the perfect time for them to make the move up to premier grade.

I'm sure there are similar example in NSW, Illawarra maybe?

For mine it s the fact that in both comps, (leaning more towards nsw here as a have a greater knowledge) that their are haves and have nots. The whole thing needs a strong hand to step in and go these three clubs are now ARC, remove them from the local comp and then manage the hell out of it (a long shot I know) so you end up with rep teams and a local comp that is more even allowing players to achieve higher honors while playing for their local side.

Having a merged comp with NZ would be great but I'm not sure they would be so willing as we are.

 

[Bowside]

For mine it s the fact that in both comps, (leaning more towards nsw here as a have a greater knowledge) that their are haves and have nots. The whole thing needs a strong hand to step in and go these three clubs are now ARC, remove them from the local comp and then manage the hell out of it (a long shot I know) so you end up with rep teams and a local comp that is more even allowing players to achieve higher honors while playing for their local side.

Having a merged comp with NZ would be great but I'm not sure they would be so willing as we are.

I think they would be as they are increasingly losing players to league due to the clearer pathway to senior football. It would also be over by the time the NPC starts and will be quite beneficial in identifying talent for the NPC.

On the issue of club rugby, if it morphs into some sort of NRL-esque competition, do the have-nots just get cast aside when they are unable to operate at a heightened level of professionalism?

I feel club rugby has too much history and politics surrounding it to move towards this style of competition structure. The only thing I see working with the clubs is if they have some sort of Australia wide cup competition for the top ranked teams from the previous season to be played during the current season. But it would need ARU funding and the ARU is broke. And if they could muster the money is it would be better spent on youth teams for the super rugby.

I think both youth teams and a club cup should be long term goals for the ARU.

 

[It is what it is]

I think they would be as they are increasingly losing players to league due to the clearer pathway to senior football. It would also be over by the time the NPC starts and will be quite beneficial in identifying talent for the NPC.

On the issue of club rugby, if it morphs into some sort of NRL-esque competition, do the have-nots just get cast aside when they are unable to operate at a heightened level of professionalism?

I feel club rugby has too much history and politics surrounding it to move towards this style of competition structure. The only thing I see working with the clubs is if they have some sort of Australia wide cup competition for the top ranked teams from the previous season to be played during the current season. But it would need ARU funding and the ARU is broke. And if they could muster the money is it would be better spent on youth teams for the super rugby.

I think both youth teams and a club cup should be long term goals for the ARU.

For any competition to be viable it needs to be funded.
Funding comes from TV rights, Grants, Sponsors, Merchandise sales etc.
The big problem is that at the moment there isn't a commercially viable pathway.
TV schedules are loaded in Oz with AFL, Football, Cricket (about 10 mths plus per year), Rugby League, plus, plus,plus for both free to air and Cable operators.

Sponsors are difficult to attract today and more so if they and the sporting competition aren't featured on mainstream media such as TV, Radio, Press etc. I would seriously question the future of rugby league's Toyota Cup NYC U/20 comp if it wasn't so heavily subsidised and didn't have some games on TV

ARU Grants are stretched across Wallabies, Sevens, Super Rugby, Players Association etc etc and there's not a lot left for another drain on funds.
The calendar is also crammed with Super games, 6 Nations, Tri-Nations and International tours so there is not much available.

Our population can't support so many sports and their variations now, and we've already seen the demise of basketball and the chopping and changing of soccer seasons. We're a large country too, and travel costs would be huge, as ARC discovered.

The other option is individual benefactors, such as those that own teams in Rugby League (Souths), NFL, MLB, Premier Soccer, Indian Cricket etc. It's already happening in club rugby in NSW today but where is it all heading and what does success look like?
People investing in club rugby will have to be either independently wealthy and expect no return, or be persuaded to shift their existing monies from funding America's Cup campaigns and owning race horses to rugby and still expect no return.

I cannot see NZ having any interest in having us join them in a joint 3rd tier comp, they don't need us.

So, it is what it is, and the challenge of finding a 3rd tier and U/20 solution will need some serious celebral horse power working in good faith if they want to deliver a sustainable solution and not another 1 year blip like ARC.

 

[Bowside]

Did you miss the part where I wrote "It would need ARU funding and the ARU is broke".

We are all arguing over pipe dreams. But I firmly believe my pipe dream is the best one.

 

[Jets]

I think you'll find that the review is focused on the football operations of the Clubs in Sydney and Brisbane and how they can best work into the player development pathway that the ARU currently has in place. It will have nothing to do with a new comp because JON doesn't see it as a requirement for the growth and development of the game in Australia.

My understanding is that the review wants to make sure that the money from the ARU is spent on making the players better and not on basic running costs of the club or to pay staff wages.

In regards to the Brumbies players now playing in the Canberra comp, it is a new requirement as of this year. I also think it puts some weight behind the fact they should be part of the process.

 

[It is what it is]

Did you miss the part where I wrote "It would need ARU funding and the ARU is broke".

We are all arguing over pipe dreams. But I firmly believe my pipe dream is the best one.

Good for you, I'm firmly happy for ya Bowside.

 

[Lindommer]

The advent of a "national club competition" on the east coast involving only the established/wealthy clubs must be avoided at all cost. The ONLY object of rugby administrators should be the expansion of the game. The rise of Parramatta and Penrith in Sydney this year while traditional powerhouse Randwick run last show how fluid the competition is. And how the potential of clubs in western Sydney can be realised with a modicum of effort. How strong could Parramatta and Penrith be with some decent support?

Looking at the Sydney premiership clubs, Gordon, Warringah, Norths, Easts, Randwick, Souths and Eastwood are basically broke (Parramatta and Penrith I don't know). The club I'm involved with, West Harbour, simply refuse to live beyond their means and post a modest profit every year. Not difficult when the Treasurer's on the staff of the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority, the banks' watchdog! To ask the Sydney clubs to sign up for a bigger competition with increased expenses is sheer folly, a potential for further disaster.

The introduction of the ARC in a RWC year was unfortunate. If it had've been the following year with JON at the helm, and a realistic attitude toward costs, it may well still survive. Don't forget there were numerous meetings, CapGemini and others, before 2007 involving all levels of Australian rugby which all called for another competition above the existing clubs. We should still be aiming at this, with the rider it MUST be financially viable.

 

[Jets]

I personally feel that the ARU or the State bodies need to set up a commercial arm that assists the current clubs to become commercially viable. I can't for the life of me understand how a club board can approve player payments while they record a loss on the balance sheet. A club would be better off running in the middle of the table, providing a good experience for the players and fixing up their finances rather than spending a lot of money they don't have, winning a premiership and going broke.
It all starts at the top in club land. You need strong leadership that has the long term viability of the club as the number one goal. The Club President should be a position that is earn't by someone who has some experience in the commercial world.

 

[It is what it is]

The advent of a "national club competition" on the east coast involving only the established/wealthy clubs must be avoided at all cost. The ONLY object of rugby administrators should be the expansion of the game. The rise of Parramatta and Penrith in Sydney this year while traditional powerhouse Randwick run last show how fluid the competition is. And how the potential of clubs in western Sydney can be realised with a modicum of effort. How strong could Parramatta and Penrith be with some decent support?

Looking at the Sydney premiership clubs, Gordon, Warringah, Norths, Easts, Randwick, Souths and Eastwood are basically broke (Parramatta and Penrith I don't know). The club I'm involved with, West Harbour, simply refuse to live beyond their means and post a modest profit every year. Not difficult when the Treasurer's on the staff of the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority, the banks' watchdog! To ask the Sydney clubs to sign up for a bigger competition with increased expenses is folly, a potential for further disaster.

The introduction of the ARC in a RWC year was unfortunate. If it had've been the following year with JON at the helm, and a realistic attitude toward costs, it may well still survive. Don't forget there were numerous meetings, CapGemini and others, before 2007 involving all levels of Australian rugby which all called for another competition above the existing clubs. We should still be aiming at this, with the rider it MUST be financially viable.

I like your thinking and you and West Harbour should be congratulated for your responsible management.
I'm just struggling to see how another competition can be established, if it is not self funding and relies on hand outs.
This not aimed at you, it's a challenge for the game and all of us.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I personally still think something like the old Australian Rugby Shield would be a better option. Instead of multiple 'clubs' reintroduce it as a true 'provincial' rep structure. It could be used in a similar style as the NPC. Involve a Sydney and Brisbane team alongside the likes of both Country set ups (based in area's nearby to both Sydney and Brisbane), ACT/SNSW and Victoria. If kept to the East Coast it could be kept to a reasonable level of expense and wouldn't require the currently struggling clubs to put forth too much extra financial outlay. Could even in WA providing a business case was provided as they should be included.

 

[wamberal]

I would like to share an amusing anecdote. Apparently Eastwood ran at a loss last season, because they won too many games!

Winning bonuses can kill ya.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Whatever became of the "audit" that someone did into club finances and administration from about 4 years ago? I think it got a write up in the Sydney Morning Herald at the time.

Given the recent Michael Doyle thought bubble about reinvigorating Rugby in Western Sydney, perhaps it is timely to bump this thread with the question what was the actual outcome of the ARU Taskforce to reform Brisbane and Sydney Premier Rugby, and with the benefit of 3 years of hindsight how visionary and successful was the Taskforce?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Whatever became of the "audit" that someone did into club finances and administration from about 4 years ago? I think it got a write up in the Sydney Morning Herald at the time.

Given the recent Michael Doyle thought bubble about reinvigorating Rugby in Western Sydney, perhaps it is timely to bump this thread with the question what was the actual outcome of the ARU Taskforce to reform Brisbane and Sydney Premier Rugby, and with the benefit of 3 years of hindsight how visionary and successful was the Taskforce?

What was the thought bubble?
He was out at Parra v Penrith I believe with visions of a merger.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^ Summary here (vvvv) along with link to reference article from Fox Sports:

Plans to merge Penrith and Parramatta into Western TwoBlues at Blacktown, move Eastwood to Castle Hill and make new Shute Shield team in Campbeltown. http://m.foxsports.com.au/rugby/shu...hem-to-blacktown/story-e6frf4pu-1227438393260

 

[Strewthcobber]

From memory among other things the taskforce recommeded
* a change to the structure of the competitions - eg teams only fielding premier grade, reserve and premier colts. Rest of the grades in separate competitions. With subbies?
* a blanket ban on player payments
* reduction of ARU funding

 

[TOCC]

Whatever became of the "audit" that someone did into club finances and administration from about 4 years ago? I think it got a write up in the Sydney Morning Herald at the time.

My thoughts were that the audit was to see what savings/expenditure could be cut at club level so the ARU could reduce funding to the clubs without compromising their viability.

 

[Pfitzy]

From memory among other things the taskforce recommeded
* a change to the structure of the competitions - eg teams only fielding premier grade, reserve and premier colts. Rest of the grades in separate competitions. With subbies?
* a blanket ban on player payments
* reduction of ARU funding

1) Somewhat agree - but it could go to three grades + Colts
2) BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA!
3) Well of course. And in that the competition should look to stand alone. But while there is a conflict of interest there, clubs will continue to get money.

Doyle can step right the fuck away from the "merger" of Emus and Two Blues - which is a thinly veiled way of saying "can't we shitcan both those clubs and start somewhere nice, like Castle Hill?"

Fuck that. Fuck that right in the ear.

 

[elementfreak]

Keep this in mind: The VRU premier division will undergo major changes next year, 2 teams look to drop out (at this stage).

Really? Any clue which two?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Was Booroondarah and MU. MU Stayed up , Booroondarah didn't.

 

[fatprop]

Club rugby is simply screwed, they have no money, no real coverage to justify sponsors apart from a "fan".

The ARC will grow in importance and club rugby will end up/stay amateur (with some clubs having the ability to be sort of semi-professional at the top)