NSW AAGPS Rugby 2013

[Quick Hands]

And in the last 30 years, there are only 3 years in which one or more of the big 4 have not won.

NC in 2012 & 2010, TSC in 1993.

Last SHS win 1973 and last SGS win 1967.

 

[angrydog]

For the historians out there, here is a complete breakdown of the previous winners.

GRAMMAR (14)
1897-98-99, 1915-16, 1919-20-21-22, 1924*, 1929, 1949*, 1966-67
HIGH (5)
1946*, 1963, 1971-72*73
KINGS (28)
1890-91-92-93-94-95, 1901-02-03, 1910, 1913-14, 1917, 1924*, 1926-27*-28, 1934, 1951, 1954, 1961*, 1974, 1978*, 1997-98*-99, 2000, 2002, 2008*-09*
NEWINGTON (9)
1896, 1900, 1911-12, 1953, 1961*, 1979, 2010, 2012
SCOTS (6)
1948*-49*, 1959, 1978*, 1987, 1993
SHORE (8)
1908-09, 1933*, 1969, 1970*, 1977*, 1998*, 2006*
ST IGNATIUS (9)
1964, 1972*, 1975, 1980, 1996, 2003, 2006*, 2008*-09*, 2011
ST JOSEPHS (53)
1904-05-06-07, 1918, 1923-24*-25, 1927*, 1930-31-32-33*, 1935-36-37-38-39, 1946*-47-48*, 1950, 1952, 1955-56-57-58, 1960, 1962, 1965, 1968, 1970*, 1976, 1977*-78*, 1981-82-83-84-85-86, 1988-89-90-91-92, 1994-95, 1998*, 2001, 2004-05-06*-07,
2013????
* Denotes shared
1939-1945 Not played

 

[Inside Shoulder]

For the historians out there, here is a complete breakdown of the previous winners.

GRAMMAR (14)
1897-98-99, 1915-16, 1919-20-21-22, 1924*, 1929, 1949*, 1966-67
HIGH (5)
1946*, 1963, 1971-72*73
KINGS (28)
1890-91-92-93-94-95, 1901-02-03, 1910, 1913-14, 1917, 1924*, 1926-27*-28, 1934, 1951, 1954, 1961*, 1974, 1978*, 1997-98*-99, 2000, 2002, 2008*-09*
NEWINGTON (9)
1896, 1900, 1911-12, 1953, 1961*, 1979, 2010, 2012
SCOTS (6)
1948*-49*, 1959, 1978*, 1987, 1993
SHORE (8)
1908-09, 1933*, 1969, 1970*, 1977*, 1998*, 2006*
ST IGNATIUS (9)
1964, 1972*, 1975, 1980, 1996, 2003, 2006*, 2008*-09*, 2011
ST JOSEPHS (53)
1904-05-06-07, 1918, 1923-24*-25, 1927*, 1930-31-32-33*, 1935-36-37-38-39, 1946*-47-48*, 1950, 1952, 1955-56-57-58, 1960, 1962, 1965, 1968, 1970*, 1976, 1977*-78*, 1981-82-83-84-85-86, 1988-89-90-91-92, 1994-95, 1998*, 2001, 2004-05-06*-07,
2013????
* Denotes shared
1939-1945 Not played

Well done Angry dog - particularly like the lead off with SGS.
Lends perspective to recent dominance.

 

[Quick Hands]

Well done Angry dog - particularly like the lead off with SGS.
Lends perspective to recent dominance.

Also showcases the amazing dominance of Joeys across 123 years, especially as it took them 14 years to win their 1st title. For 1 school out of the 8 to have won 43% of the titles on offer is a considerable achievement in anyone's books. Add TKS with another 23% and two schools have really dominated the rest. (approx 66% of titles won by 25% of the schools)

 

[Lindommer]

Also showcases the amazing dominance of Joeys across 123 years, especially as it took them 14 years to win their 1st title. For 1 school out of the 8 to have won 43% of the titles on offer is a considerable achievement in anyone's books.

Comes about due to being 100% boarding until 1997: every Joeboy went to every training session, every Joeboy played rugby until diveball was introduced in the late 80s, every Joeboy still goes to watch every First XV match. But the strength of Joeys rugby really was their intra-school games, the fabled "colour competition" played on Sundays and Wednesdays. TSS introduced something similar (introduced by an old Joeboy whose lad attended Southport in the 90s/00s) and their rugby improved tremendously. Some Old Boys reckon those intra-school matches were the toughest rugby they ever played.

 

[Quick Hands]

Comes about due to being 100% boarding until 1997: every Joeboy went to every training session, every Joeboy played rugby until diveball was introduced in the late 80s, every Joeboy still goes to watch every First XV match. But the strength of Joeys rugby really was their intra-school games, the fabled "colour competition" played on Sundays and Wednesdays. TSS introduced something similar (introduced by an old Joeboy whose lad attended Southport in the 90s/00s) and their rugby improved tremendously. Some Old Boys reckon those intra-school matches were the toughest rugby they ever played.

No doubt the boarding environment gives a significant advantage and the colour comp was another huge factor.

Interestingly St Joseph's Gregory Terrace share a similar, but not quite as impressive, dominance in the Qld GPS rugby.

Also interesting to note that Brisbane Grammar (non-selective, but with an academic focus) and Brisbane State High (the only academically selective state school in Qld) have each won 1st XV titles in the past 5 years.

 

[GPSrow]

Comes about due to being 100% boarding until 1997: every Joeboy went to every training session, every Joeboy played rugby until diveball was introduced in the late 80s, every Joeboy still goes to watch every First XV match. But the strength of Joeys rugby really was their intra-school games, the fabled "colour competition" played on Sundays and Wednesdays. TSS introduced something similar (introduced by an old Joeboy whose lad attended Southport in the 90s/00s) and their rugby improved tremendously. Some Old Boys reckon those intra-school matches were the toughest rugby they ever played.

i think this will slowly change now for Newington and Scots, now as the o program is slowly growing in both schools with newington now having nearly 50 boarders currently attending with a stronger emphasis on getting rugby breeding areas and putting heavy advertising, buses and scholarships opportunities.

this will only mean a change in culture for rugby at Newington and now instead of one game being watched against joeys with a full attendance from the boys (which is compulsory) also known as Back to Newington Day, there is nearly half the school at most turning up to both home and away matches with the younger boys getting a real sense of pride seeing their 1st XV winning and beating the schools that otherwise would've smashed them in their own fixtures, but now get to see a triumphant team win and claim the premiership. Which would inspire the young lads to train hard, listen to their coaches and start even playing outside of school in junior rugby programs e.g. petersham rugby for Newington and Hunters hill for some of the northies that go to new.

this is something that all or half boarding schools get to offer and that something that is changing and will overall make the Rugby competition all the more better.

take note gentlemen!

 

[scaraby]

Scots has done an incredible job of getting kids involved..the influx of soccer players to rugby has been incredible. I think they had 13 I s this year.
The guys in charge of the Rugby program from YR 3 onwards and the senior boys who get involved with the Preppies deserve full credit. The old days of idolising the Firsts are back .
MOST importantly the Kids LOVE training and playing and I'm talking lower grades here as well.
Rotation occurs regularly with kids coming up all the way from the bottom putting the so call established players on notice. Its only going to get stronger...

 

[Playmaker]

The TKS ball skills development program (TKSBSD) has started training halfway through the current term. This definitely shows the depth of enthusiasm at TKS and sets a high standard for the oncoming season.

 

[Quick Hands]

i think this will slowly change now for Newington and Scots, now as the o program is slowly growing in both schools with newington now having nearly 50 boarders currently attending with a stronger emphasis on getting rugby breeding areas and putting heavy advertising, buses and scholarships opportunities.

this will only mean a change in culture for rugby at Newington and now instead of one game being watched against joeys with a full attendance from the boys (which is compulsory) also known as Back to Newington Day, there is nearly half the school at most turning up to both home and away matches with the younger boys getting a real sense of pride seeing their 1st XV winning and beating the schools that otherwise would've smashed them in their own fixtures, but now get to see a triumphant team win and claim the premiership. Which would inspire the young lads to train hard, listen to their coaches and start even playing outside of school in junior rugby programs e.g. petersham rugby for Newington and Hunters hill for some of the northies that go to new.

this is something that all or half boarding schools get to offer and that something that is changing and will overall make the Rugby competition all the more better.

take note gentlemen!

The effect of boys watching a strong/competitive 1st XV play cannot be underestimated. No doubt about it.

As the historical results published on this page show, the big 4 have dominated the past 30-40 years and I for one think it's great that Scots and New are now competitive at the 1st XV level. Any one of the top 6 schools could have won in 2012 and long may that continue. One hopes that this can be replicated right down through the age groups.

Brisbane Grammar and Brisbane State High have also proved that being smart and good at sport are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Quick Hands]

Scots has done an incredible job of getting kids involved..the influx of soccer players to rugby has been incredible. I think they had 13 I s this year.
The guys in charge of the Rugby program from YR 3 onwards and the senior boys who get involved with the Preppies deserve full credit. The old days of idolising the Firsts are back .
MOST importantly the Kids LOVE training and playing and I'm talking lower grades here as well.
Rotation occurs regularly with kids coming up all the way from the bottom putting the so call established players on notice. Its only going to get stronger.

What's taken place at Scots in the last 5 - 10 years should be applauded. Rugby again outstrips soccer in team numbers, which wasn't the case 10 years ago.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

As the historical results published on this page show, the big 4 have dominated the past 30-40 years and I for one think it's great that Scots and New are now competitive at the 1st XV level. Any one of the top 6 schools could have won in 2012 and long may that continue. One hopes that this can be replicated right down through the age groups.

Who are the big 4?
The only reliable premiers - that is year in year out - in the last 30-40 years have been Joeys.
Kings had a 19 year drought from 78-97
Newington for 21
Scots haven't won for 19 years
Shore had a 21 year drought
And View had a 16 year drought.

This is not to denigrate those schools by any means. It it to point out how truly dominant SJC have been and to put some historical perspective on more recent successes.

 

[Quick Hands]

My earlier post #527 acknowledges the amazing dominance of Joeys over the history of AAGPS rugby. (43% of all titles in rugby)

In earlier post #524 I point out that with the exception of NC in 2012 & 2010 and TSC in 1993, all title since 1982 have been won by either Joeys, Kings, Riverview or Shore. In terms of rugby, they are the biggest i.e. more teams and they also have the highest concentration of boarders and the biggest rugby demographic. The advantages of having boarders and a rugby demographic are evident in the fact that Joeys and Kings have won 66% of all titles over 123 years.

You are absolutely correct in pointing out the Joeys dominance, but "big" is an adjective of size not of quality.

My perception of the competition as a whole based on observation is that since 1982 Joeys (18 wins), Kings (7) and Riverview (5) have always either won or been close and that Shore (2) were always close and competitive. My memory and perception is that for at least 20 of the last 30 years (1982-2002) the other 4 schools rarely threatened, although this has changed recently with the strengthening of NC and TSC.

It was not meant as a euphamism for most important, nor that they were the 4 best schools, nor is it meant to exclude the previous 93 years, it was just an observation.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

@QuickHands it is hard to convey the right tone: I was not intending to have a go at you.
When I tried to understand your post it led me to do the analysis to see what was going on and I was a little surprised to see how few premierships are won by the schools other than joeys and kings.
Long droughts do not seem consistent with the emphasis that some of the other schools place on rugby.
Most importantly, rugby is not the road to redemption for any school so that trying to match Joeys by any process other than instilling the essentials in all children is pointless and loses sight of the real objective:
"The game the thing, the rest a circumstance"`


Cross bars and posts, the echo of distant bells,
The cool and friendly scent of whispering turf;
And in the air a little wind that tells
Of moonlit waves beyond a murmuring surf.
The glittering blue and verdant afternoon
Has locked up all its colours, leaving dearth,
Deserted, underneath a careless moon,
The glory has departed from this earth.
The goals stand up on their appointed lines,
But all their worth has faded with the sun;
Unchallenged now I cross their strict confines;
The ball is gone, the game is lost and won.
I walk again where once I came to grief,
Crashing to earth, yet holding fast the ball,
Symbol of yet another True Belief,
The last but surely not the least of all:
To strain and struggle to the end of strength;
To lean on skill, not ask a gift of chance,
To win, or lose, and recognize at length
The game the thing; the rest, a circumstance.
And now the teams are vanished from the field,
But still an echo of their presence clings;
The moon discovers what the day concealed,
The gracefulness and grief of passing things.
Quick as the ball is thrown from hand to hand
And fleetly as the wing three-quarters run,
Swifter shall Time to his defences stand
And bring the fastest falling one by one,
Until the moon, that looked on Stonehenge ground
Before the stones, will rise and sink and set
Above this field, where also will be found
The relics of a mystery men forget.
JAR Mackellar

 

[GPSrow]

there was a curtain raiser for next year against new vs kings at SFS before the tahs play????? did this get cancelled??

 

[Quick Hands]

@QuickHands it is hard to convey the right tone: I was not intending to have a go at you.
When I tried to understand your post it led me to do the analysis to see what was going on and I was a little surprised to see how few premierships are won by the schools other than joeys and kings.
Long droughts do not seem consistent with the emphasis that some of the other schools place on rugby.
Most importantly, rugby is not the road to redemption for any school so that trying to match Joeys by any process other than instilling the essentials in all children is pointless and loses sight of the real objective:



.

It is hard to convey the right in tone in e-mails rather than words and I wasn't offended either, I was just trying to explain what I meant.

I think we agree that Joeys success is largely because of good coaching right through the age groups based on core skills. The boarding and demographic probably increase this success. I think it's a great pity that it has taken the other schools so long to work it out.
I too was surprised by the extent of the Joeys/Kings dominance.

PS I loved the poem

 

[gilbert15]

Regardless of who is training or who has talent or depth, the most telling change next season will be the introduction of the home & away, two round competition, the excitement and anticipation of a return match for any team, that may suffer an upset in the first round, will be something to savior!!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It is hard to convey the right in tone in e-mails rather than words and I wasn't offended either, I was just trying to explain what I meant.

I think we agree that Joeys success is largely because of good coaching right through the age groups based on core skills. The boarding and demographic probably increase this success. I think it's a great pity that it has taken the other schools so long to work it out.
I too was surprised by the extent of the Joeys/Kings dominance.

PS I loved the poem

Coogee?
Manly?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[random2]

2013 draw is out, spilt into 3 groups (1st and 2nds rugby, 3rds rugby, 1st and 2nds football). Bit all over the place and very inconvenient. For example in the last round Joeys play Scots, Riverview and High all away.

http://portals.studentnet.edu.au/sports/uploads/DocArchive/DOCARC0003646.pdf

 

[Quick Hands]

2013 draw is out, spilt into 3 groups (1st and 2nds rugby, 3rds rugby, 1st and 2nds football). Bit all over the place and very inconvenient. For example in the last round Joeys play Scots, Riverview and High all away.

http://portals.studentnet.edu.au/sports/uploads/DocArchive/DOCARC0003646.pdf

Thanks for posting. Very interesting. No doubt the bigger schools will find thing inconvenient from a logistics point of view, with so many teams to get to grounds. The issue of players moving from 3rds to 2nds poses the most obvious problem as mostly they will be playing at different venues, possibly at the same time.

I don't suppose if anyone knows what time the 3rds games will be played? Particularly when Grammar and High are involved as for them it will be a 1st XV game and I imagine a 3.15 start would be in place.

I notice that soccer have stuck with the 8 team x 1 round format, which for me is the way to go, but obviously not until Grammar and High can be competitive. I've always preferred the concept where 2 schools play each other in rugby and soccer on the same day.