Wallabies 31 Man Squad

[Ash]

Well, reason and sense isn't having much luck. I suspect it is due to the thickness of the tinfoil hats.

This is unacceptable in my opinion. People have a right to their own opinion. Again, please tone down the abuse.

edit: Calling a mass of people "thick" is not the right way to go about it, either.

 

[maxdacat]

I think the following quote suggests this is a bigger and longer term issue than we thought:


I think this is a pretty extreme proposition to go public with - it can hardly help the Reds for it to be broadcast that a wallaby and highly regarded 12/13 has had his Wallaby chances scuttled by Public Enemy #1.

Not sure it even makes sense. CFS seems to be playing really well right now.

 

[BDA]

This is unacceptable in my opinion. People have a right to their own opinion. Again, please tone down the abuse.

edit: Calling a mass of people "thick" is not the right way to go about it, either.

Well technically he's calling their hats thick but yes the comment was a bit snide

 

[lewisr]

Do you think that screams "dedication"?

I personally think 7 Years at the Reds, despite what would have been numerous lucrative offers from euro/ jap and NRl clubs shows a sense of pride and dedication to his team. He and his family love Australia and continually show that they support rugby union in the country. Quade has done wonders for the exposure of the game and that includes his 'toxic' comments. Sometimes you need that bit of mongrel and stupidity to stir the masses into action and make them realise union exists. He attends numerous charity events, gets involved with the community and is positive towards his fans wherever he goes. You only have to look at the the world cup in NZ to see he takes this stuff seriously.

On top of that, kids imitate his play in the back yard and people love his generally entertaining approach to the game and off the field.

There is more to the blank face we see on the footy field. He does a lot for the game and I think he is an important asset regardless of whether he is in the wallabies or not.

I sincerely apologise if my comments lack substance and legitimate arguments. Although I suspect they represent the feelings of a lot of wallaby fans at the moment.

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

CFS seems to be playing really well right now.

But CFS is playing at 13, not 12. Fainga'a is playing 12 at the reds at the moment - and he's hardly setting the world on fire.

The difference between Taps and Fainga'a is that Fainga'a is not expected to play any sort of 'play maker' role whereas Taps is.

 

[Sully]

I thought Ant has been great at 12.

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

lucrative offers from euro/ jap and NRl clubs

I don't think Cooper has seen anyt lucrative offers from NRL.... that was all hyperbole when Cooper was going through contract renegotiations to drive up his price. Realistically, there was interest from the NRL, not no lucrative offers as you suggest.

 

[Nathan's]

So Mowen and Lealiifano have no experience but should start as they are a force, but Folau lacks the experience so shouldn't start? Que?

I don't object to starting Lealiifano over Horne but you are refer Horne's play last year under Michael Foley. Have you been watching him this year at all? Also Mortlock played 13 whereas Horne is playing 12 inside AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) these days.

Speight isn't eligible and Davis has speed but little else. Foley is still too raw at flyhalf. He has shown in the last two matches that he hasn't yet got the tactical vision when squeezed by a hard defence. Mogg is the only one I agree was unlucky.

I agree with Barnes at 10 if (and this is a big if under Deans) he runs the ball like he did on Saturday and keeps the useless chip kicks in the back pocket. On Saturday he reminded me of the player who was going to be the new Bernie Larkham, when he filled in at fly half in the 07RWC, before he adopted/was forced into this tactical kicking role that he has had for the last few years.

In reference to the first question you asked, Mowen has 69 caps and Lealiifano 63, so they're pretty seasoned campaigners in comparison to Folau who has 12 now. It's all a different story when you play international rugby or against the Lions for this matter, but Folau hasn't played much rugby union at all and is still finding his feet.

Horne in my opinion still hasn't been that great this year. Even though these two have different styles of play, Lealiifano has much more of an attacking presence and is an option to put a kick away from right on our goal line. He is a goal-kicker and can slot into a flyhalf role if Berrick or O'Connor find themselves at the bottom of a ruck etc.. or are injured in play. They both have great defence, Horne obviously better at this, but in my opinion I would still pick Lealiifano. Even Horne has only gained 56 caps at state level, and 14 at Wallaby level, which still isn't all that much. I just feel the Wallabies need a spark in midfield, which i think Lealiifano can provide. Something which the Wallabies have been lacking.

I still would have put in Foley to give him the experience, yes he may be raw but he is one of the best upcoming players we have in the country. I have no queries to start him early as he wouldn't let us down. I might add that some of Foley's kicks have been spot-on throughout the season.

Agreed with Barnes, he is very dangerous when running the ball. The chip-kick can come off I suppose, but there is no need to do it every single time.

 

[BDA]

Perhaps we could open up a new Forum titled "Quade Cooper: Best thing since Jesus or worst things since Hitler?"

 

[lewisr]

I don't think Cooper has seen anyt lucrative offers from NRL.. that was all hyperbole when Cooper was going through contract renegotiations to drive up his price. Realistically, there was interest from the NRL, not no lucrative offers as you suggest.

At the end of last year I completely agree.

I meant at the end of the 2010/2011 seasons before the world cup there was quite a lot of interest. I suspect Nasser would've been pushing him towards the money like the hired gun that is SBW but Quade loves it in QLD.

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

Perhaps we could open up a new Forum titled "Quade Cooper: Best thing since Jesus or worst things since Hitler?"

We've already got too many threats dedicated to Quade.

If you want to read more on Quade Cooper I can point you in the direction of the following threads..... another one would be superfluous

Wallabies Watch
Wallabies 12 Man Squad
Reds 2013
Reds 2014
Quade Cooper in need of a makeover

 

[biggsy]

I love you quade cooper and your still the best 10 in my eyes.

There is said it.

 

[I like to watch]

You're just proving my point mate. Anyone who doesn't see that there is an issue with Deans' and his man management is either deliberately ignoring it or doesn't know anything about leadership and the role of a manager.

He is supposed to be the mature, 50 year old (how old is the bloke?) coach of the wallabies and yet for some reason he ends up in these grudges with 20 year old sportsmen over a few comments they make. It is widely accepted (even by lord Richie himself) that it's Deans' way or the highway, and when working with young, enigmatic and overconfident play makers this simply doesn't cut it.

This is the bit that makes me spew.
Forget names,if any 20 something thinks that the coach has to make special considerations for them,when they are selected to represent their country then they can go and get fucked.
It is an honour,not a right,and they paid a shitload to make it even sweeter.The teams interest should come before the individual,and if they don't like it, stay away.

 

[Braveheart81]

At the end of last year I completely agree.

I meant at the end of the 2010/2011 seasons before the world cup there was quite a lot of interest. I suspect Nasser would've been pushing him towards the money like the hired gun that is SBW but Quade loves it in QLD.

Do you think that perhaps part of the reason why people disagree with what you are posting is that regardless of the situation you turn absolutely everything into a positive for Quade Cooper?

A couple of posts ago you even said that his twitter outbursts and following interview where he made the toxic comments were actually helping out Australian rugby as well.

Maybe some semblance of objectiveness would help get across the points you make which are valid rather than them just getting lost amongst ridiculous straw man arguments.

 

[Bullrush]

I personally think 7 Years at the Reds, despite what would have been numerous lucrative offers from euro/ jap and NRl clubs shows a sense of pride and dedication to his team.

Did Quade Cooper show his loyalty by staying in rugby for substantially less than what he was being apparently offered from other clubs/codes? Or did he use those offers to bumb up his price even more?

Don't get me wrong, I think QC (Quade Cooper) should try and get the best deal he can but let's not pretend he stayed out of loyalty.

And yes, he may do all those other things eg. charity events etc but he also gets boxing events OK's by the ARU and has used their support thru some of his own dramas eg. the laptop ordeal.

I also think that when you only sign 1yr deals, you have to make yourself as valuable as possible to ensure you keep getting good deals.

Yes, I know he's signed a longer deal now......I just don't buy into this 'loyalty' sentiment. QC (Quade Cooper) is as loyal as he's paid to be.

 

[lewisr]

This is the bit that makes me spew.
Forget names,if any 20 something thinks that the coach has to make special considerations for them,when they are selected to represent their country then they can go and get fucked.
It is an honour,not a right,and they paid a shitload to make it even sweeter.The teams interest should come before the individual,and if they don't like it, stay away.

So then, if I'm so completely and utterly insane, tell me why Ewen McKenzie can get the best out of the play maker if he is such a selfish, stuck up and spoilt individual? How can it possibly make sense that he would feel or deliberately act as though he is bigger than the national side when he clearly doesn't when surrounded by provincial players at Super Rugby level?

In no way am I saying people should get 'special' considerations. Playing your best flyhalf isn't giving him 'special' considerations. It's simply knowing how best to manage the way he approaches his game. There is a difference between being enigmatic and overconfident and being a team ruining influence.

And this thread will always revert back to arguments about Quade and Deans. There is no avoiding it haha.

 

[Braveheart81]

So then, if I'm so completely and utterly insane, tell me why Ewen McKenzie can get the best out of the play maker if he is such a selfish, stuck up and spoilt individual? How can it possibly make sense that he would feel or deliberately act as though he is bigger than the national side when he clearly doesn't when surrounded by provincial players at Super Rugby level?

In no way am I saying people should get 'special' considerations. Playing your best flyhalf isn't giving him 'special' considerations. It's simply knowing how best to manage the way he approaches his game. There is a difference between being enigmatic and overconfident and being a team ruining influence.

And this thread will always revert back to arguments about Quade and Deans. There is no avoiding it haha.

Super Rugby and Test Rugby are substantially different things.

There are plenty of players who have been far more influential in Super Rugby than test rugby and many of those have been players who take more risks in attack.

It is entirely possible that McKenzie would do no better with Cooper at test level. Certainly you could say that McKenzie has struggled to get the best out of Cooper at any point in time other than 2011.

 

[KevinO]

Super Rugby and Test Rugby are substantially different things.

There are plenty of players who have been far more influential in Super Rugby than test rugby and many of those have been players who take more risks in attack.

It is entirely possible that McKenzie would do no better with Cooper at test level. Certainly you could say that McKenzie has struggled to get the best out of Cooper at any point in time other than 2011.

It's not the coach who get's the best out of Cooper, it's the little man they call Genia who get's the best out of him. The best 9 - 10 combo in Australia. The Tri Nations was pretty much won on them working well together 2 years ago and when 1 is injured the other does not look as relaxed on the field.

 

[lewisr]

It is entirely possible that McKenzie would do no better with Cooper at test level. Certainly you could say that McKenzie has struggled to get the best out of Cooper at any point in time other than 2011.

I was talking about team involvement and team harmony more than play. But I believe he would be able to get more from the player.

We all have our biases. Mine is toward Quade and the reds and I believe it is fair to say there are biases here that go the other way. I feel as objective as you feel so I'm sorry if my comments are loopy and stupid. I'm contributing to this conversation as you are, simply with an alternate opinion. There are always going to be conflicting views so I see no need for some of us to be so aggressively critical.

I'll leave the Quade stuff alone for now as I feel as though I've crossed a line with a lot of you.


Are their any opinions on who should be captain? I am a firm believer Horwill produces the goods but there are others saying Genia performs best with the (c) beside his name.

 

[The Red Baron]

Guys, I don't get annoyed by whether you are pro-Quade or anti-Quade.

What I do get annoyed about is the incessant bickering and one-upmanship regarding Quade that is clogging up the whole fucking thread.

There is a squad of 25 blokes that have just been picked, yet all I am seeing here is a constant to and fro about one player. For christ's sakes, enough is enough!

I am far more interested in discussing the squad balance. I.e. we currently only have 3 specialist locks in the squad, the lack of a backup scrum half, and so on. Is our squad balanced overall? Will we be sacrificing our lineouts to gain scrum parity?

Please, lets discuss the actual squad, rather than the positives and negatives of leaving one player out.