School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Quick Hands]

No school has as its aim to get you into uni, but rather to foster critical thought and not be swayed by any advertising bumf, even the sophisticated stuff from drs Wright and Vallance (?spelling).

I'm not sure I'd call setting out your philosphy "advertsing bumf". I think Drs Vallance and Wright are more than entitled to say on what philosphy they are running their respective schools. Particularly when their approaches conform to the AAGPS code of practice. I wonder what the "critical thinkers" at some other schools think of flouting mutually agreed rules? Every single school in the AAGPS denies offering sporting scholarships/bursaries or targeting talented sportsmen, because it is against the rules with which they have agreed to abide. Yet it is perfectly obvious that some schools are targeting talented sportsmen with inducments such as sporting scholarships/bursaries.

 

[Quick Hands]

But there's no doubt Stewart came from auggies is there?

There's another ex Augustines/Barrenjoey High boy at Scots at the moment.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

There's another ex Augustines/Barrenjoey High boy at Scots at the moment.

This year's 1s?

 

[Quick Hands]

This year's 1s?

1sts. - Started TSC Year 10 (2012) I believe.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

1sts. - Started TSC Year 10 (2012) I believe.

So I was wrong thinking they were organic.
Not often that my cynicism gets done for commitment.

 

[Spieber]

For mine, the darkest day in schoolboy sport was only a few years ago when Shore had a brain snap and thought they could win HoTR by poaching students from other schools and put together a dream 8, which was subsequently beaten by SGS and it turned into a nightmare. For this and other reasons it is hard to contemplate a prohibition. It's also evident that a scholarship at Shore which is very popular would cost the school a lot more that one at a school without full lists, especially if they can not be used to motivate the other students.

WTF, you are totally off track - poaching from other schools??? Ok, let me see, where to start. SGS won in 2011. Shore's 1st VIII (Year commenced senior school and their Yr 8 crew):
Bow Yr 7 (1st Quad)
2 Yr 7 (3rd Quad)
3 Yr 7 (3rd Quad)
4 Yr 7 (1st Quad)
5 Yr 7 (5th Quad)
6 Yr 7 (4th Quad)
7 Yr 7 (3rd Quad)
S Yr 10 entry as boarder from Canberra Grammar, father rowed in the 1976 boat that lost by half a canvass to Newington.

Please IM me if you are in fact referring to the 2007 crew?

 

[DaveyPocock #legend]

Great list above. What about a similar list for the 16s? I will need to cross reference for 2015; the next year I am interested in.

think youll find that the scots 16's is 'scots through and through'

 

[Inside Shoulder]

think youll find that the scots 16's is 'scots through and through'

what does that mean?

 

[DaveyPocock #legend]

what does that mean?

It was sarcastic

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It was sarcastic

My favourite thing in the world

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

I personally think a lot of the discussion misses some of the driving factors. Firstly it is what I call the "death of boarding schools"

....within a GPS context, Joeys have an unfair advantage in that they are such a massively big boarding school, and lets face it Joeys number one sporting focus is rugby.

Now dont get me wrong I love Joeys rugby, but having seen dominance first hand, I get that some schools are tired of Joeys putting their amazing record in their faces every year.

So the first issue is boarding schools are dying ... and Joeys are really the last force in this area.

The next big change, is what I consider the South Africanisation of private schools. Reddam lobbed in, and suddenly everything was fair game ...poaching teachers, poaching kids

So all schools have been forced to think hard about marketing their schools ... so while the Scots and Newington can be criticised ... at the end of the day, if it shores up enrolments and secures a schools financial viability, can you blame the schools

in any event, I must admit I am a fan of divisionalisation, but even that creates logistical issues, and ultimately it is probably good if there are some rules

but then again do we start telling Sydney Grammar how they set their selection criteria

it's all too hard ... maybe it's just time to completely overhaul the whole system ... but equally hard to see that happening

 

[Inside Shoulder]

So all schools have been forced to think hard about marketing their schools . so while the Scots and Newington can be criticised . at the end of the day, if it shores up enrolments and secures a schools financial viability, can you blame the schools

How has kid's rugby got to the point where it is seen as such an important end in itself that resources of all sorts are being thrown at it by schools whose raison d'etre has nothing at all to do with (professional) sport.
What is the obsession with school boy rugby based on? Where has it come from?

And beyond all that the narrowing of the base further restricts our ability to compete with AB's.

 

[footychixbeers]

You are a joke the Scots first 15 is 100 percent pure don't deviate from the question .... you cant give me the details because there are none .... shame on you for suggesting that this fantastic side are anything but... stop jumping at shadows and start dealing with facts .....

Your obnoxious, egotistical demeanour represents the bane of what Scots is becoming. Whilst it may not seem fair to the boys, everyone on this thread would like see you squirm whilst attempting to back up the purity of this team. Please explain the circumstances on which these boys attend:

• Toby Rudolf
• Callum Styles
• Jamaine Crosley
• Matt Crafts
• Guy Porter

And if it's not too hard, could you perhaps give us the enrolment information for the current 16A's squad.

 

[Vegas]

Your obnoxious, egotistical demeanour represents the bane of what Scots is becoming. Whilst it may not seem fair to the boys, everyone on this thread would like see you squirm whilst attempting to back up the purity of this team. Please explain the circumstances on which these boys attend:

And if it's not too hard, could you perhaps give us the enrolment information for the current 16A's squad.

fcb - couldnt agree with you more - its attitudes and approaches like the one from Rob hart which is making it very difficult to plough through all of the malarchy on this thread ! It has been suggested he pull his head in, but hopefully you have more luck than I ! ( refer to below ) -

Rob Hart and Beserker - your posts show just how much of a problem this flagrant proliferation of scholarships has become - it has obviously screwed up not only the schools', but also people's logic and ability to see the trees for the forest. Personal attacks, naming of players and playing the man and not the ball, have no place on this forum - so pull your heads in - your personal nonsense is ruining the forum.

How the hell can this nonsense be stopped - or is it truly beyond repair ??

Can i ask one thing of you though - can you please refrain from identifying the individuals - these are only boys, and whilst i believe it is somewhat misguided, their real intent is betterment for themselves ( one would hope ).

Save your vitriole and bullets for the schools who continually compromise their principles, alienate the student and parent base, and flagrantly ignore previous agreements that thery shook hands on ...... if this is Scots - open up on them, and any others, with both barrels !!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Good points Vegas.

I suspect that fcb and others that have "named names" have done so in frustration at being challenged to do so by the Flat Earth Society Chapters associated with certain schools who continue to maintain the "innocence" of either their Alma Mater or current education provider.

The real issues seem to be the example set by educators that the rules of the association don't matter, and secondly the centralisation of talent in fewer and fewer places is doing little to develop and grow the base of the rugby playing pyramid.

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

seems like everyone is keen to pick on Scots

personally I think kids who have managed to secure scholarships, should be proud of themselves

and I reckon the vast bulk of posters on this site, particularly parents paying fees, would happily take the $

and all the schools do it ... it isn't just Scots & Newington
[the evil twins]

listening to some Shore/Riverview/Joeys parents .... you'd think a sports scholarship never got given

my brother won a scholarship [not from one of the evil twins] and back in those days it was touted as an all rounder scholarship

certainly wasn't a state secret

I'd be very surprised if the same scholarship doesn't still exist

but at this school, it is now all labelled "means tested" and the "co-curricular" is played down

anyway I would like to hear someone suggest some sensible/constructive self regulation, that recognises that some schools rightly or wrongly have different focuses

wasn't there some mention of a points system for GPS schools?

 

[cyclopath]

seems like everyone is keen to pick on Scots

personally I think kids who have managed to secure scholarships, should be proud of themselves

and I reckon the vast bulk of posters on this site, particularly parents paying fees, would happily take the $

and all the schools do it . it isn't just Scots & Newington
[the evil twins]

listening to some Shore/Riverview/Joeys parents .. you'd think a sports scholarship never got given

my brother won a scholarship [not from one of the evil twins] and back in those days it was touted as an all rounder scholarship

certainly wasn't a state secret

I'd be very surprised if the same scholarship doesn't still exist

but at this school, it is now all labelled "means tested" and the "co-curricular" is played down

anyway I would like to hear someone suggest some sensible/constructive self regulation, that recognises that some schools rightly or wrongly have different focuses

wasn't there some mention of a points system for GPS schools?

The shame / fault lies with the schools who are in breach of the fucking code of conduct to which they have agreed, not the boys, or parents per se.
This argument is ridiculous - "Oh, it happens elsewhere, so what's the problem?".
The problem is that escalating a sports, or several sports, to an "arms race" status, in which not all schools wish to compete, effectively has driven other schools out of the competition which has a long tradition. And will continue to do so.
Again, it (schooling) is supposed to be a holistic time for these boys with sport, music, art etc. being complementary to a good academic grounding.

 

[forwards4ever]

If the schools system was completely overhauled, a lot of this "scholarship" garbage would become irrelevant. Cut out the AAGPS, the CAS and the ISA and divide all independent schools into divisions by size of rugby playing populations. You'd need a little manipulation as no one is as big as Joeys, but it would sure as hell need less manipulation they is required by Rugby masters now.
You could easily have 5 divisions of 6 schools, where number of teams first, is the criteria for selection.
Smaller rugby schools like New & TSC would then not need to ramp up the scholarships, they could play in a more equal playing field.

 

[Quick Hands]

If the schools system was completely overhauled, a lot of this "scholarship" garbage would become irrelevant. Cut out the AAGPS, the CAS and the ISA and divide all independent schools into divisions by size of rugby playing populations. You'd need a little manipulation as no one is as big as Joeys, but it would sure as hell need less manipulation they is required by Rugby masters now.
You could easily have 5 divisions of 6 schools, where number of teams first, is the criteria for selection.
Smaller rugby schools like New & TSC would then not need to ramp up the scholarships, they could play in a more equal playing field.

Trouble is, there's not much appetite for change in any of the 3 systems and also, GPS schools play against each other in a whole range of sports, not just rugby.

 

[forwards4ever]

Here's a novel thought! Lets overhaul the whole lot!
I know it won't happen, because the traditionalists will never let it! It's so much better to kill a sport by stealth & scholarships, but don't touch our association. So will AAGPS be happy when they only have 5 in Div 1, with Shore falling as have High & Grammar?