School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Spieber]

The bursary that keeps on giving:
"''I was cheated,'' the 17-year-old says. ''I wanted to play Firsts basketball for two years but the bringing in of imports didn't give me a chance. The school didn't help me at all.''


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/educ...ots-student-20130925-2uem1.html#ixzz2fvm0IGrC

Point: It is difficult to achieve world domination without collateral damage. Students and families come and go but premierships are forever.
Counterpoint: It is not hard to find disgruntled students/parents at any school for a quote. Just visit the Shore boat shed and seek out mothers of Year 12 boys in the 2nd VIII

 

[I like to watch]

Jarse,if you cannot see a difference in handing out literally a handful of academic scholarships, that are totally transparent and disclosed on a Schools website,with details such as closing dates. etc to secretly,and against rules of the association you compete in,bringing in a whole Rugby team bar one,and and a whole Basketball squad, then you are being disingenuous.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Funny thing that academic scholarships are allowed with no one really complaining about them.

Similar to sporting scholarships, academically gifted kids induced to AAGPS school with the prospect of a fee reduction will result in artificially inflated academic results for the school they attend.

Full fee paying Parents pay handsomely for the privaledge of having little Johnny attend a school that is ranked high in the HSC results table, in the hope that little Johnny will similarly receive a high academic score.

Academic scholarships are just as big a marketing rort/marketing tool as sporting scholarships are. They distort the academic "playing field", and obfuscate the ability to make a valid comparison of the overall performance of the School in it's most core deliverable.

Level the playing field properly. Get rid of the all Scholarships: musical, academic, leadership, sporting, pastoral and all rounder.

A little tough here Hugh. As within the public system there is the "selective" high school as well.
Whether it be sports led (hills, endeavour etc), academic (james ruse, gosford) or a performing arts school ( I don't know any of them, but they are out there).
Is this a level playing field where "like minded" students gather?
I am not for one moment defending what has shamefully occurred and being played out in the media. But, and it is a big but, if everyone stayed at Newport Public and then Barranjoey High or Plumpton/Randwick boys etc what would happen? I chose to send my sons to a GPS school to get them away from their home schools in our area. To be blunt, they are shitholes, both public and private. The local private schools would challenge for the arrogance award that Scots wish for with world domination. I am sorry, I have digressed, but to abandon academic scholarships to an underprivileged young child to leave them wallow in the mire of their particular local system isn't right. In saying that, sparrow picking kids into First XI's, XV's and VIII's is totally and utterly F&£ked!!!
If there are to be scholarships, list as the particular schools do in the media and let a board made up of AAGPS (all) select the person best suited and send to the selected school.
Transparent as all get out, because each of the schools know who is deserving of what.
Saves a fortune due to only one wage per school and not millions of dollars each year hiding the "inheritance/windfall/ debenture".
I know that this will not sit well with a lot of the punters out there that may have to show their incomes to the school, but list personal/company earnings as well in the application. These would always be private to only this board and then the school that you little Oliver or Samuel attends. If you dont wish to abide by this, the local school beckons and the P&C always need help .

 

[Hugh Jarse]

There are principles at stake.

1. The agreed Code of Conduct excludes ALL forms of recruiting and subsiding talented athletes.

2. One of the leaders of the "Gang of 5" has admitted that most schools, and by inference his school, actively breach those rules.

3. Breaking the rules are seemingly OK provided a relatively even competition results. The old USA Defence force approach to managing gays. It was officially banned but if you don't ask, they don't have to tell.

Basketball is the sacrificial lamb to achieve the desired change in the otherwise untouchable sacred cow of Rugby.


Everyone is getting upset about Johnny missing out in a spot in the firsts because of a late arrival.
Same thing happens with a Year 10 academic scholarship. Little Johnny misses out on receiving the Maths prize at speech night, that they received in Yrs 7 -9.
Somehow that is OK, but missing out on some preceived entitlement to a gig in the 1st XV/VIII/V is not.


Back to sport. What happens next?
Either the agreed AAGPS Code of Conduct changes or it does not.

Assuming that it doesn't, and it gets actively policed to the point that all AAGPS schools are "organic", whatever that nirvana state looks like, where do the advanced rugby players go?

Do CAS or ISA pick up the talent or do they gravitate to the Selective Sports High Schools Talented Athlete Programmes.

Either way the elite sportskids will end up concentrated in a small number of schools with elite programmes, and not spread across the state attending the nearest high school.

The AAGPS rep team will probably not be as dominant as it currently is. Proportionally there will be less AAGPS representation at State and National level.

ARU will simply refocus their efforts to the Sports Highs or the CAS/ISA schools that the boys end up gravitating towards.

The Junior Club competition at U16 and above will remain a shadow of the school programmes, and the base of the Rugby pyramid will be no broader than it currently is.


How do they open the Code of Conduct up to officially allow enticements or scholarships whilst still maintaining "the right balance" and transparency?
The blokes that have the answers to that are currently working on solving the Third Tier issue, the imbalance between Uni and the rest of the Shute Shield clubs, re-aligning and re-paving the Pathway to gold, bringing peace to the Middle East, halting Climate change, finding cheap and renewable alternate energy sources, and resolving the Fukishima meltdown.

There will be as many proposals put forward to implement this as there are on the Third Tier competition, and whatever proposal is put forward, someone will find a reason how <insert school name> is disadvantaged.

 

[I like to watch]

Everyone is getting upset about Johnny missing out in a spot in the firsts because of a late arrival.
Same thing happens with a Year 10 academic scholarship. Little Johnny misses out on receiving the Maths prize at speech night, that they received in Yrs 7 -9.
Somehow that is OK, but missing out on some preceived entitlement to a gig in the 1st XV/

No Hugh,everyone is getting upset because Johnny and ALL of his teammates for 3 years are missing out,when they are replaced by "the dream team"
As you point out, it was tolerated when Schools fudged one here and one there.Bringing in entire teams or squads,is clearly not to be tolerated,nor should it be.
You are not comparing like for like,and you know it.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^ So Sporting scholarships are OK then.

What is the best way to keep them fair?

A centrally administered draft would seem to be a good idea, however (assuming year 7 entry) these are 12 year olds we are talking about.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Same thing happens with a Year 10 academic scholarship. Little Johnny misses out on receiving the Maths prize at speech night, that they received in Yrs 7 -9.

I dont see too many kids turning up on a maths scholarship in year 10 - and when it happened at a girl's school (IIRC) there was outrage because it had skewed the results for a weak year and papered over the cracks in the teaching at the school. If my memory is working the head involved is no longer there.

Academic scholarships have to been in the light of the fact that at the end of the day the litmus test (love consecutive cliches) is how the 200 at the school go against the 70,000 other competitors.
Having a few nerds on scholarships motivates the others to take their studies more seriously than they otherwise might, from my observations.

No Hugh,everyone is getting upset because Johnny and ALL of his teammates for 3 years are missing out,when they are replaced by "the dream team"
As you point out, it was tolerated when Schools fudged one here and one there.Bringing in entire teams or squads,is clearly not to be tolerated,nor should it be.
You are not comparing like for like,and you know it.

Isnt one issue in all this the fact the alleged importation involved more than a whole team and extended into the 2nds - so the whole landscape of B'ball for the year 11 and 12 boys changed overnight - and when queried the boys and parents were told to such it up as this was the new world order.
I wonder, if B'ball was not used as a stalking horse for rugby, whether it was the sheer fact that the whole team was replaced that tipped everyone over the edge?

 

[I like to watch]

The best way to keep them fair,would be to have these Schools run by men of honour.Especially as they trade on ethics,morals,character building etc.
Your assertion that it must be either zero scholarships or totally uninhibited open slather is ridiculous.

 

[Lindommer]

Point: It is difficult to achieve world domination without collateral damage. Students and families come and go but premierships are forever.
Counterpoint: It is not hard to find disgruntled students/parents at any school for a quote. Just visit the Shore boat shed and seek out mothers of Year 12 boys in the 2nd VIII

AFAIK there aren't any boys parachuted into Shore's First VIII, they've been at the school for many years and (rightly) deserve their spots in the top boat. Shore's continued success in rowing is a result of damned hard work and commitment. Not external recruitment.

 

[fsrugby]

Where are you getting this information that only one of the First XV started before year 9? The Captain Lachlan Cannell, LIam Bennett, Matt Serhon, Lachlan Anderson and at least 3 others started at year 7 or before in one of the preps.

DragonMan - I just noticed your question buried in my original, very long post!

Your information is incorrect

Matt Serhon came to Newington in year 9 - he was at Waverley in years 7 & 8.
Lachy Cannell also came in year 10 (or 11?) - i think he was at Epping High prior to that
Liam Bennett was not in the 1st XV
Nobody attended the Prep School

The only Year 7 boy is Anderson - though earlier in the Season Josh Mitchell was in the team - Mitchell is also a year 7 boy.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Many boys at Shore were enrolled at birth (or shortly thereafter). Some even boast of enrolling their kids while in utero.

Big call for those pointing the finger at Shore for recruiting talented newborn athletes.

 

[Buster]

AFAIK there aren't any boys parachuted into Shore's First VIII, they've been at the school for many years and (rightly) deserve their spots in the top boat. Shore's continued success in rowing is a result of damned hard work and commitment. Not external recruitment.

Lindommer, whilst this season may have been an organic one for the north shore men, don't for a second convince yourself all has been a rosy affair. I know of some who have been offered "spots" in the VIII who were top level rowers at other schools, two of which left and went to shore in year 11 and fancy that, were Australian champions six months later wearing the Navy and White

In all honesty, and i have said this a million times already, is there anyone, from any GPS School (bar high) who can, hand on heart, state their school has not once in the last ten years enticed a talented athlete to their school on some sort of assistance.

If the answer is no, then the schools are all in breach of the same code of conduct, so i don't see how any of the headmasters now feel it is time to police the matter, or see it as their "moral " responsibility to do so, now that a couple of schools (who for years were belted by the big 3 pumping out "talented" "Organic" athletes) now copped a once in a lifetime hiding!

I agree Scots appear to have gone to far on the B'Ball side of things, but any claim by a headmaster that their rugby side was the result of buying, is beyond ridiculous, and how the shore headmaster can level claims of safety at Scots, yet not mention Newington in the same breath is beyond me.

If all Scholarships were removed from all Schools, Scots would still have had 12 of their 1st XV (by my count) still there (including all of their GPS, NSW and Aus reps who are all full freight boys) and would have beaten the other schools by even bigger margins.

Time for a reality check people, it starting to become pathetic!

 

[Quick Hands]

I love the way that the red herrings of academic/music scholarships are continually thrown up here.

Firstly sport is the only area in which the AAGPS schools compete against each other - it's an athletic association and has nothing to do with either music or academics.

Secondly academic and music scholarships are usually from a particular bequest i.e. they are self-funding - not subsidised by fee paying parents.

Thirdly - academic and music scholarships nearly always start in Year 7. I know that some schools have maybe of each to start in Year 11, but these don't displace anyone - you just add another trumpet/violin/clarinet etc to the band.

Finally, academic and music scholarships are quite small in number, whereas from what we have seen a significant number of boys are involved in sport - specifically Scots in multiple sports and Newington (possibly only in the 150th year team) in rugby. There certainly aren't 20 or 30 + academic or music scholarships available in each year group. (You check this on most of the schools' websites as they are publicly available)

For someone as supposedly eminent in boys education as Dr Hawkes to endorse breaking the rules as long as you only do it a little bit, knowing the importance that sport plays in the emotional and physical health of adolescent boys, seems almost as bad as Dr Lambert's attitudes (I've used the plural because he seems to have multiple, contradictory ones).

 

[Quick Hands]

I agree Scots appear to have gone to far on the B'Ball side of things, but any claim by a headmaster that their rugby side was the result of buying, is beyond ridiculous, and how the shore headmaster can level claims of safety at Scots, yet not mention Newington in the same breath is beyond me.

There's a lot of truth in what you have said. One possibility for the above is that formal and informal converstions have taken place between the Heads over this issue and the Dr Mulford at Newington may have taken at different attitude to Dr Lambert. I'd be fairly certain that the letters were only written after conversations had failed.

 

[Spieber]

AFAIK there aren't any boys parachuted into Shore's First VIII, they've been at the school for many years and (rightly) deserve their spots in the top boat. Shore's continued success in rowing is a result of damned hard work and commitment. Not external recruitment.

I have been misunderstood - my earlier posts make it clear with which school I am affiliated. I was thinking more along the lines of the ease of finding disgruntled parents - ie 2009 when 3 boys repeated in a 2nd VIII having been winners the prior year, with the crew being faster then the 1st VIII at HOTR.

 

[Buster]

There's a lot of truth in what you have said. One possibility for the above is that formal and informal converstions have taken place between the Heads over this issue and the Dr Mulford at Newington may have taken at different attitude to Dr Lambert. I'd be fairly certain that the letters were only written after conversations had failed.

I have no doubt your assumption is spot on, and that New may have been a bit more willing to admit they had gone to far.

I think Scots should accept that with the B'Ball they have gone to far, but that would be it, as i am yet to see any real evidence of mass importing in any other sport (or to a level greater then any other GPS school).

The constant bashing of the U16's is getting a bit tired to, does anyone have stats on who played, when they started at Scots, where they are coming from (previous schools/area) and any previous sporting achievment to warrant the tag "Sports scholarship". And if there are any that started in year 7, leave them out, because that apparently is ok with the headmasters and the majority of people i am gathering, as it has been used as the constant fall back solution by many people here, take a punt in year 7 and thats fine as they get the whole schooling experience. Also has anyone acknowledged that the star super team, DID lose to Joeys twice IIRC? Flashbacks to the early/mid 2000's when Joeys couldn't lose?

Quick people its a conspiracy theory, everyone get on board!

 

[The Spectator]

Ok, take one boy from the total in the 16As who started in Yr 7 and you are still left with 6 - the back fillers for positional shortcomings. I hope the independent review looks at the next obvious code of conduct breach. Bit hard to ignore when the boys and parents crow about it.

Scots 16as lost to Kings and to Joeys - it was a three way tie. Maybe the recruiters just chose badly and some other stars were already in other schools.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

DragonMan - I just noticed your question buried in my original, very long post!

Your information is incorrect

Matt Serhon came to Newington in year 9 - he was at Waverley in years 7 & 8.
Lachy Cannell also came in year 10 (or 11?) - i think he was at Epping High prior to that
Liam Bennett was not in the 1st XV
Nobody attended the Prep School

The only Year 7 boy is Anderson - though earlier in the Season Josh Mitchell was in the team - Mitchell is also a year 7 boy.

Serhon's old man is a teacher at New as well

 

[Paddogreen]

Lindommer, whilst this season may have been an organic one for the north shore men, don't for a second convince yourself all has been a rosy affair. I know of some who have been offered "spots" in the VIII who were top level rowers at other schools, two of which left and went to shore in year 11 and fancy that, were Australian champions six months later wearing the Navy and White

In all honesty, and i have said this a million times already, is there anyone, from any GPS School (bar high) who can, hand on heart, state their school has not once in the last ten years enticed a talented athlete to their school on some sort of assistance.

If the answer is no, then the schools are all in breach of the same code of conduct, so i don't see how any of the headmasters now feel it is time to police the matter, or see it as their "moral " responsibility to do so, now that a couple of schools (who for years were belted by the big 3 pumping out "talented" "Organic" athletes) now copped a once in a lifetime hiding!

I agree Scots appear to have gone to far on the B'Ball side of things, but any claim by a headmaster that their rugby side was the result of buying, is beyond ridiculous, and how the shore headmaster can level claims of safety at Scots, yet not mention Newington in the same breath is beyond me.

If all Scholarships were removed from all Schools, Scots would still have had 12 of their 1st XV (by my count) still there (including all of their GPS, NSW and Aus reps who are all full freight boys) and would have beaten the other schools by even bigger margins.

Time for a reality check people, it starting to become pathetic!

High can not be excluded.
http://www.sydneyboyshigh.com/enrolment/years8-12
That 25 in year 9 sure has had some basketball talent.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

In all honesty, and i have said this a million times already, is there anyone, from any GPS School (bar high) who can, hand on heart, state their school has not once in the last ten years enticed a talented athlete to their school on some sort of assistance.

Me.